Re: Church & State

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On 9/16/05, v wrote:
> You bring this up at a very good time. Since we now have a minority
> mentality in this country. The word discrimination comes to mind. It is a
> Federal crime to discriminate against a minority. So it seems our supreme
> court judges are banking on this fact to undermine the majority rule.
It's
> not fair to discriminate against the minority. So i have a soloution for
> that. In the next Presidental election, who ever wins the race to the
> white house has to hand over the keys to the loser, it wouldn't be fair
> that the loser got the minority vote. How ever assinine that sounds, is
> how assinine this new B.S. is about the pledge and takng God out of this
> country. Kruscheve said he would bury us. And the K.G.B. had their 100
> year plan in place long before detant. The plan was and still is to
> destroy us from within with out firing a shot. If we all have noticed
> we're doing all the shot firing on our selves. Yep, it's been a down hill
> slide since they took God out of the school system. I'm sure we'll
> continue to slide into oblivion. Unless we the people start to do some
big
> changing in this great country of ours. Stamp out B.S. politics along
with
> it's members. Vote out all the old crap. And call for a change in the
> judical, no more life time membership for supreme court justices. Thier
> one of our biggest problems. Amen!
>
>
> On 9/15/05, Anonymous wrote:
>> I agree with Frank. "The persecution experienced in England compelled
>> them to offer protection for any church from the state, however, there
>> was never intent to protect the state from church."
>>
>> I would substitute church for "a Christian person" or "a Jewish person"
>> or any other person. I believe that the word "establishment" is an
>> important word to consider. In 1555 England returned to Roman
>> Catholicism. Protestants were persecuted and about 300 were burned at
>> the stake. People were forced because of the horrible consequences
>> before them to worship/believe/exercise a certain religion. I'm not
>> seeing any executions by the government because everyone isn't
>> practicing "Christianity." There is no "establishment" of a religion
>> in the United States.
>>
>> However, an angle of this discussion is often ignored. There are many
>> decisions by the courts that are "prohibiting the free exercise" of
>> religion, specifically Christianity or anyone other religion that
>> professes there is a God...I would take a guess that about 90&37; of the
>> world believes there is a God. Why is it that the majority always has
>> to succumb to the minority these days? It defeats the purpose and
>> benefits of being in the majority!
>>
>> To quote the great Abraham Lincoln our government is a “government of
>> the people by the people for the people.” If about 80&37; of the United
>> States is of the Judeo/Christian faith wouldn’t it stand to reason that
>> you would see reflections of that in the government? I
>> repeat…’reflections’, not establishment of… A federal judge just
>> declared the reciting of the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools
>> unconstitutional. Is this not prohibiting my freedom of speech, my
>> freedom to freely exercise my belief in God? I don’t remember being
>> forced to say the pledge and there were many kids that did not when I
>> was in school. We aren’t hanging kids in the school yard because they
>> don’t recite the pledge. Why is it now unconstitutional to recite it?
>> I believe that it is unconstitutional to make law that says I can’t.
>>
>> “It is increasingly clear that we are a nation at odds with ourselves
>> and our history. On three separate occasions, the Supreme Court has
>> ruled that America is a Christian nation. The Court’s 1892
>> determination that ‘this is a Christian nation,’ was followed in 1931
>> by a subsequent ruling that Americans are a ‘Christian people’ and,
>> again in 1952, when Justice William O. Douglas, writing for the Court,
>> said that ‘we are a religious people and our institutions presuppose a
>> Supreme Being.’ But today, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, determined
>> otherwise. That the complaint of one atheist could conceivably cause
>> the Pledge of Allegiance to be removed from every school classroom in
>> this nation is a violation of the fundamental principle of our
>> Constitution. George Washington, the president of the Constitutional
>> Convention, the Father of our country, and the first president of the
>> United States, declared that principle when he said ‘the fundamental
>> principle of our Constitution ... enjoins that the will of the majority
>> shall prevail.’ The Founders knew that if an increasingly small
>> minority was enabled to prevail, then democracy would be destroyed and
>> should that number be reduced to one, we would be back in the same
>> position that we were in under King George and this is not freedom or
>> democracy, it is tyranny! This is a deplorable ruling that must be
>> overturned. It is at odds with the facts and the law. If ‘under God’
>> goes, then surely some misguided legal purist on the federal bench
>> will, one day soon, determine that the Declaration of Independence
>> (‘endowed by their Creator’) and the U.S. Constitution (‘Done…in the
>> year of our Lord’) must go as well.” - Dr. D. James Kennedy
>> http://www.coralridge.org/PledgeofAllegiance.htm
>>
>>> On 7/11/05, Frank wrote:
>>>> The way I see it, there is no doubt that the founding fathers
>>>> intended that the government be guided by a widely accepted set of
>>>> moral values that would keep it from becoming corrupt. The
>>>> persecution experienced in England compelled them to offer
>>>> protection for any church from the state, however, there was never
>>>> intent to protect the state from church. Since the only way to
>>>> have a successful society that, for the most part, governs itself;
>>>> that society has to rely on some base of morality... otherwise,
>>>> that society will inevitably degenerate and dissolve. This is
>>>> hard to argue when you sit back and think on the last 40 years or
>>>> so, and how a decline in values has harmed our social fabric. The
>>>> future of our country are being raised on average less refined,
>>>> less civilized, less intelligent, more obnoxious, less
>>>> independent, less honorable... you get the idea... I doubt anyone
>>>> can say they don't see more (by more I mean both in number, and
>>>> intensity) disrespectful, ill-mannered, unattended children
>>>> running about than say 15-20 years ago... (and not just because of
>>>> population increase). Thats my 1.5 cents (I leave out the other
>>>> half cent, since I've probably bored most of you by now), thanks
>>>> for the forum. :)