Re: 2nd Amendment perspectives

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How could you possibly state that violent crime and gunshots
are rarer in Israel than in the US when you just admitted
that most males are in the reserves and you are in a
daily 'War of Attrition'? You have incidents almost daily, and
here's a clue-in for you. Just because you are doing the
shooting doesn't make it a non-violent incident. And how can
you say 'guns are hard to get', when obviously the people you
are having the 'War of Attrition' with have them in abundance?
And how does that translate into a lower crime rate?...Because
you don't consider Israelis and Palestinians shooting at each
other a crime? If that's your idea of " a Valhalla for those
who love guns"....I believe I'll pass! I'll take our system
over yours any day! We just need to fix ours back the way it
was supposed to be, where anyone can have, carry and use a
firearm for lawful purposes.

On 10/31/02, rrr wrote:
> Are Palistinians allowed to carry guns?
>
>
>
> On 10/31/02, Shmuel Goldstein wrote:
>> My thesis: Repeal the 2nd Amendment.
>>
>> I live in Israel. The so-called West Bank, to be precise.
> Here in Israel, we
>> do not have a 2nd Amendment, and no one here has a "right"
> to bear arms.
>>
>> There are basically three ways in which your average
> Israeli citizen can/does
>> use arms: 1) He can acquire a license, then buy the weapon,
> 2) Work for the
>> Police or other security agency, 3) Do reserve duty
>>
>> Now, just about every man does reserve duty, and typically
> the weapon used is
>> an Uzi, M-16, or perhaps a Galil, which handles like an AK-
> 47, and uses M-16
>> size bullets.
>>
>> In addition, reservists and regular army soldiers are all
> over the country, and
>> it is de riguer to see a 19 y/o soldier get on a bus with
> an M-16 strapped
>> around his shoulder. No one thinks anything of it. In fact,
> there have been
>> several incidents where one of these guys was near a
> suicide bomber and stopped
>> him by shooting him.
>>
>> In order for a regular citizen to acquire a weapon, say, a
> pistol, he must
>> undergo security checks, medical checks, and police checks.
> It is not a given
>> that he will receive a license for the weapon. Basically,
> if he was an IDF
>> officer, a cop, or if he lives in a dangerous area (the
> gov't decides what is
>> dangerous, and they make logical decisions, believe me), he
> can get the
>> license. Then he's got to go to an approved dealer to buy
> the gun. Then he must
>> do monthly target practice or risk having his license
> revoked, and the weapon,
>> which could cost hundreds of dollars, confiscated.
>>
>> I remind you, that this is ISRAEL, which is undergoing a
> cruel war of attrition
>> right now.
>>
>> Gunshot and violent crimes here are much more rare then
> they are in the US.
>> Part of the reason is that a weapon is hard to get. Part of
> the reason, indeed,
>> is cultural.
>>
>> Before the OSLO accords, signed in 1993, Palestinian
> violence was primarily
>> rocks being thrown, and the occasional bigger attack. Since
> the accords were
>> signed, and more to the point, since the Palestinian police
> were given weapons
>> by the Israelis, my children must go to school in BULLET-
> PROOF buses. The
>> Palestinians use the weapons freely against us, and even
> use them at weddings -
>> firing in the air in "celebration".
>>
>> An Israeli is VERY careful with the weapon he either has
> bought, or was issued
>> for his reserve duty. He must fill out a report and undergo
> sometimes grueling
>> interrogations by the Police (or the MP's) if he fires the
> weapon.
>>
>> Many people where I live walk around with pistols in their
> belts, and/or the
>> Uzi or M-16. These are simple civilian residents of a
> Jewish village in
>> Samaria (aka West Bank). These people have the weapons
> legally. In fact, the
>> attack just a few days ago in Harmesh was stopped by people
> with such weapons.
>>
>> Israel can be considered the valhalla for those who love
> guns.
>>
>> BUT
>>
>> There is no 2nd Amendment, and there is no "right" to bear
> arms.
>>
>> In the US, there is no "right" to drive, yet millions do.
>> There is no "right" to be a doctor, yet there are many.
>> There is no "right" to fly, yet there are many pilots.
>> There is no "right" to be a pharmacist and sell potentially
> deadly drugs, yet
>> many are pharmacists.
>> There is no "right" to be a prostitute, and in fact, it is
> illegal in most
>> places, EXCEPT certain areas of Nevada.
>>
>> In short, if the 2nd Amendment is repealed, each State and
> locality can then
>> set the weapons-use issue according to the customs and
> mores of its own
>> people. Even if there is no "right" to bear arms, this does
> not mean that guns
>> will be taken away from people. It only means that they
> could (but not
>> necessarily will) be monitored much more closely, which I
> think will only help
>> to reduce violent crime.
>>
>> Just my thoughts,
>>
>> Shmuel
>>

Re: 2nd Amendment perspectives, 2/10/05, by Shmuel Goldstein.

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