Re: Wolpoff & Abramson, NAF

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...Sounds like there's a lot going on.

The Credit Card Agreement that they have photocopied, (which you
have not signed) plus your use of the credit card might well be
considered enough proof that, by your conduct, you did actually
agree to the arbitration clause that's in it. This will likely
depend on the state that you're in and how the courts in that
state have dealt with previous situations similar to yours.

As for the actual workings of the arbitration itself, there is
little a court can do to interfere with those. Mainly, the
court's interest is in making sure you were served properly and
that you agreed to arbitrate in the first place; they care
little of how the arbitration occurred, barring gross violations
of fairness, conflicts of interest etc.

Also, some state courts will require that you had actually
objected to the alleged agreement to arbitrate at an appropriate
time before they will consider intervening on that point when it
comes to you challenging the confirmation of the award.

It sounds as though you have consitently denied that there is
any binding agreement on you to arbitrate, which might work if
you can continue to show that the debt has not been proven to be
yours.

However, if you've gotten caught up in arguing the terms of the
arbitration, then that could be considered your implicit
agreement that an an agreement to arbitrate does exist.

It sounds as though you have a great attitude towards these
criminals -- not being intimidated is the first step -- but you
also want to be sure that you're doing the things you need to do
to understand your own state's courts' tendencies. (Half an hour
with a lawyer might be a good investment.)

The time to stop this thing is before or during the hearing of
W&A's petition to confirm the "award" that they or
their "clients" bought from the NAF. Trying to do anything about
it afterwards is near impossible. (There is no useful appeal
mechanism available to you.)

At the end of the day, arbitration agreements are treated as
ordinary contracts. If you can convince a judge that the debt is
not yours -- despite whatever proof W&A might be able to produce
that you used the credit card -- and/or you never entered into
any agreement to arbitrate, then the judge is going to pay
attention to that.

If it can be proven, however, that you have used the card that
the contract of adhesion applied to, then it's going to be
extremely difficult for you to then claim that the arbitration
clause does not apply to you.

Above all -- Keep Fighting!

On 11/26/07, terry wrote:
> Nope, I never agreed to be part of ANY arbitration agreement
> with anyone. As a matter of fact, I have several certified
> letters (return receipt) demanding proof where there is any
> type of contract and/or agreement I have signed with them.
> They cannot produce such an agreement because there has never
> been one. The contract of adhesion which apparently they have
> photo copied numerous times is all they have produced.
>
> I still do not even know if this alleged debt is mine. They
> have never validated the debt. I would rather fight this in
> court than pay a debt collector a dime.
>
> Some people like to throw "stuff" against the wall to see what
> will stick. My walls are made out of teflon...
>
> On 11/17/07, Gary Ricin wrote:
>> It sounds like the "award" against you was made about a year
>> ago... If that's the case, then W&A might be bumping up
>> against the expiration of the year in which they are allowed
>> to confirm the award in Court per the Fed. Arbitration Act
>> (Section9 below)
>>
>> Without a court confirmation, an arbitration "award" -- even
>> a likely fraudulent one, such as those NAF sells to W&A --
>> is not worth the paper its printed on, unless you
>> voluntarily agree to abide by it.
>>
>> If the year has passed, then you must tell the judge this if
>> and when you chellenge the award for the many grounds that
>> you've already established. The matter could well be settled
>> right there.
>>
>> Just wondering: Have you ever admitted that there is any
>> agreement binding on you to arbitrate, and is W&A able to
>> produce that agreement? If the answer to either of these
>> questions is no, then, that, again, is a very important and
>> powerful defense against the "Award."
>>
>> W&A MUST produce a binding contract to arbitrate before a
>> Court will confirm an arbitration "award." But you might
>> need to remind the judge of this, since many judges simply
>> rubberstamp arbitration "awards."
>>
>> It is extremely likely that the NAF has delivered
>> the "award" via an electronic data stream, and that there is
>> no hardcopy agreement that can be produced, except for a
>> ontract of adhesion (a pre-printed contract that you cannot
>> negotiate) that W&A will then have to prove applies to you.
>> (Go back and review my post about the case in Vermont for
>> more on this.)
>>
>> If I were you, I'd troll through the Fed. Arbitration Act
>> (link below) and your own state's Arbitration Act and I'd
>> focus closely on what W&A are obligated to do, as well as on
>> what you need to do. Remember, W&A are bringing this
>> action, not you, so it is up to them to justify it.
>>
>> Finally, I'd be very skeptical about agreeing to any kind of
>> reduced payment plan, particularly if W&A's position is as
>> weak as it seems to be.
>>
>> Also, W&A is famous for making these "deals" and, when the
>> debtor satisfies their terms and pays the reduced amount in
>> full, W&A will sell the remainder of the full amount to
>> another debt collection company, who will be able to drag
>> you through arbitration/a lawsuit again, if they want to.
>>
>> Whatever else you do, under no circumstanes trust W&A and/or
>> NAF.
>>
>> Good luck!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Section 9. Award of arbitrators; confirmation;
>> jurisdiction; procedure
>> If the parties in their agreement have agreed that a
>> judgment of the court shall be entered upon the award made
>> pursuant to the arbitration, and shall specify the court,
>> then at any time within one year after the award is made any
>> party to the arbitration may apply to the court so specified
>> for an order confirming the award, and thereupon the court
>> must grant such an order unless the award is vacated,
>> modified, or corrected as prescribed in sections 10 and 11
>> of this title." SOURCE:
>> http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode09/usc_sec_09_00
>> 000009----000-.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/13/07, Terry wrote:
>>> Sent a Cease Communications to W&A, that didn't work.
>>> Sent a Debt Validation letter (more than once) and that
>>> didn't work. I was delivered a Arbitration Notice about a
>>> year ago from the NAF and W&A. I responded to the
>>> arbitration and demanded proof where I agreed to be part
>>> of any arbitration agreement between W&A and myself. This
>>> went back and forth for a couple of months. I was
>>> surprised (insert sarcasm here) when the NAF sent me a
>>> letter stating in favor of W&A. By the way, each letter I
>>> sent was certified with return receipt to both W&A and the
>>> NAF. About a year has passed now and you guessed it, W&A
>>> want to sue me for award of the arbitration. I filed a
>>> written response with the court house well within the time
>>> frame. Living in Texas I know the SOL is 4 years. It
>>> has not reached that point yet. What happens now? Once
>>> the attorney(?) for W&A receive notice of my response will
>>> they then proceed with a court date and if so, will they
>>> try and make a last ditch effort to settle? They have
>>> never validated the debt so how do I really know it's mine?