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Re: Nonbar Juris Doctorate Degree has Value
Posted by JT on 4/22/08

    You're a little slow on the uptake, but that's ok. Hope you don't ever represent anyone.

    On 4/22/08, if member of bar its not a non bar degree wrote:
    > Well now counselor, that was sort of misleading to all
    > these unlearned readers. You were NOT a "non bar"
    > or eJD law degree holder" so not really relevant for this discussion.
    >
    > On 4/22/08, JT wrote:
    >> Yes, you have to complete your course work in a prescribed time. I passed the fylx on the first attempt and the Ca bar on the
    >> second try.
    >>
    >> On 4/22/08, non bar to bar track? without baby bar? wrote:
    >>> Lets see you started out non bar and then took additional
    >>> courses?
    >>>
    >>> Will you would have to have started all over. Cuz first
    >>> you have to take baby bar and those course to qualified
    >>> cant be non bar course. They time frame and course time
    >>> matter in the bar track program.
    >>>
    >>> On 4/22/08, JT wrote:
    >>>> I started on the non bar track and then took the additional courses to sit for the bar.
    >>>>
    >>>> On 4/22/08, dont be fooled by unaccredited degrees wrote:
    >>>>> You claiming you passed the bar based on a "non bar"
    >>>>> executive J.D. degree?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> On 4/22/08, JT wrote:
    >>>>>> Employers don't laugh at eJD's. In most cases it's 3-4 tough years of legal education while still working a full time
    >>>>>> job. It shows mental toughness and perserverance. Anyone can sit in a classroom "full time", but try working full time,
    >>>>>> raising a family and going to law school during your spare time. I attended an online law school while working full
    >>>>>> time. I have since passed the bar, but don't practice law. I make way too much money to give up my career. Don't ever
    >>>>>> let anyone tell you that a eJD is worthless.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> On 4/22/08, Value is Relative wrote:
    >>>>>>> A "nonbar Juris Doctorate" does have value, it represents that effort and study time invested in earning it. The
    >>>>>>> individual who earned the executive JD or nonbar JD degree places a value on it. There are many Californians who
    >>>>>>> earned nonbar JDs that would argue that the eJD has helped them in their careers. The study of law must be beneficial
    >>>>>>> even when students don't graduate, most students learn something. I think the value is relative (Judge Cardozo).
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> By your reasoning:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> A holder of a BA/MS in Accounting is worthless because she is not a licensed CPA.
    >>>>>>> A holder of a BA/MS in biology is worthless because he is not a licensed M.D.
    >>>>>>> A holder of a BA in Education is worthless because she is not a certified teacher.
    >>>>>>> A holder of an MSL/JD in Law is worthless because he is not a licensed attorney
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Yet we have millions of:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Unlicensed CPAs, they are called bookeepers.
    >>>>>>> Unlicensed M.D.s, they are called cancer researchers.
    >>>>>>> Unlicensed Teachers, they are assitant teachers,librarians and in some states contracted teachers.
    >>>>>>> Unlicensed JDs, they are called paralegals.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> If I had a nonbar JD and an employer(or anyone) laughed at me, I would ask one simple question. "Wheres yours? (eJD)
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Come on ladies and gentlemen, law students are supposed to be open minded. How can we help the clients if we can only
    >>>>>>> think in one direction.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> On 4/22/08, It actually has no value at all wrote:
    >>>>>>>> Such a "non bar" degree is useless in the real world. You tell
    >>>>>>>> an Employer your "law degree" doesnt allow you to be admitted
    >>>>>>>> to the bar but it is still a law degree
    >>>>>>>> after Human Resources stops laughing, you will
    >>>>>>>> be shown the door.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Further, no goverment agency accepts "non bar" law degrees.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Save yourself the money a "law degree" from Breyer State is worthless.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Print yourself a Juris Doctor degree on your laster printer.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> On 4/22/08, Eli wrote:
    >>>>>>>>> Most online distance learning law schools in California were awarding the nonbar Juris Dotorate until 12/31/2007.
    >>>>>>>>> I believe the CalBar website now says that the nonbar JD cannot be awarded by California law schools. Calbar rules
    >>>>>>>>> donot impact out of state law schools. Breyer State University still offers a nonbar Juris Doctorate. Some CAl
    >>>>>>>>> online DL law schools now offer nonbar law students a Masters of Law (MSL) or a Masters of Science in Law. The MSL
    >>>>>>>>> degree is now awarded to students that previously would have been admitted to the nonbar JD programs and would
    >>>>>>>>> have earned a nonbar or eJD law degree.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Also, the value of the MSL or the nonbar JDs is not in that they will qualify students to take the bar exam,
    >>>>>>>>> because they won't. The value of the MSL or nonbar JD is in the completing of a law study program. This study of
    >>>>>>>>> law in nonbar programs provide a structured legal curriculum that can prepare students for collateral law-type or
    >>>>>>>>> quasi-law professions. Some students just want the legal knowledge for personal satisfaction or to use in their
    >>>>>>>>> own business. Yet some other students just want to be able to say that they earned a JD degree.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> On 4/22/08, A real J.D. and a real LL.M here wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>> Who on earth would go to Breyer State and get a "non Bar" "Law degree" ?
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> What is next; Breyer State offers "non Hospital" "Medical degree" ?
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> There is no such thing as a non bar Juris Doctor degree.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> The Juris Doctor is for the practice of law and the Doctor of Medicine
    >>>>>>>>>> degree is for the practice of medicine.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> The state of bar of california does NOT allow the awarding of the Juris Doctor
    >>>>>>>>>> degree unless it qualfies the person to take the General Bar Exam.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Check the Calif bar website law school rules.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Instead of paying for Breyer State "juris doctor" degree just print one out
    >>>>>>>>>> on your laser printer. It will have same acceptance to employers and government
    >>>>>>>>>> agencies.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/08, Alan C wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>>> So you don't think there's a difference between AWARDING an honorary degree and SELLING an honorary degree?
    >>>>>>>>>>> Regardless, the rest of the world considers Breyer State a diploma mill and that's what matters.
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>> Alan C
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/08, Ed wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>>>> I checked this out Alan. From their site:
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> "1). An honorary degree and not an earned academic degree - interesting....
    >>>>>>>>>>>> 2). That they agree to sign the initials Ph.D(hon) in cases where they use this honor. - hmmm
    >>>>>>>>>>>> 3). That the honorary doctorate degree does not meet any type of requirements for licensing or
    >>>>>>>>>>> certifications,
    >>>>>>>>>>>> or any type of specific employment. - Go on.....
    >>>>>>>>>>>> 4). That the candidate abides by the university policy to never misrepresent the degree, and are clear as to
    >>>>>>>>>>>> the designation of the degree as honorary in any and all uses of the degree title." - Wiw it doesn't sound
    >>>>>>>>>>>> like you can use this degree for anything in the job market or in the academic world?!?
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> This sounds like it might be a problem here..... AND wait there's more. LSU The national champions in NCAA
    >>>>>>>>>>>> football also sell degrees too! http://www.lsuhsc.edu/no/administration/pm/pm-7.aspx Just read here. Wait
    >>>>>>>>>>>> wait wait a minute... the team they played Ohio State...
    >>>>>>>>>>>> http://senate.osu.edu/committees/Honorary_Degrees/HDGuidelines.html Oh My God Alan.... They all must be
    >>>>>>>>>>>> diploma mills because all three universities HAVE HONORARY DOCTORATES?!?!?!
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> So let me anticipate your response here: LSU and OSU selling honorary doctorates is ok right? Because they
    >>>>>>>>>>>> are well known brick and mortar universities?? However BSU isn't because they are online? Plus they also
    >>>>>>>>>>>> pocket all the tuition too from the honor doc? Well read this:
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> "Upon final approval by the administration, the candidate for the honorary doctorate degree will make a
    >>>>>>>>>>>> contribution to the University of $750.00. This contribution will be shared with various charitable
    >>>>>>>>>>>> organizations as selected by the administration."
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> Hmmm this sounds like a scam here.... an honorary doctorate program offered from a university?!? A person
    >>>>>>>>>>>> pays for a diploma that says "Honorary Doctorate" on it. That person proves they have experience to warrant
    >>>>>>>>>>>> such an honor, then is told that it is not an academic degree and will not qualify for licensing... AND THEN
    >>>>>>>>>>>> Breyer State gives the tuition away to charitable organizations!?!?! GREAT CAESAR'S GHOST!!!! Alan you have
    >>>>>>>>>>>> done it... My mind has been changed. I am withdrawing from all courses and demanding my money back this very
    >>>>>>>>>>>> moment! You sir are a crusader of education, a paladin of knowledge, & a protector of learners everywhere.
    >>>>>>>>>>>> If you don't get a metal for this I will be shocked! -me rolls eyes.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> Seriously do you work for another online university? Is Breyer State stealing your thunder? Did Breyer
    >>>>>>>>>>>> State sleep with your girlfriend? If this was the best reason you could come up with to defend your
    >>>>>>>>>>> argument,
    >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not going to take anything you say seriously from now on and neither should anyone else.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/17/08, Alan C wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually Breyer State does sell degrees. Just check out their link to honorary degrees.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.breyerstate.com/honorary-info.htm
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan C
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/17/08, Ed wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is one way to look at it... However did you ever think that if it doesn't quack, can't swim, and it
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't served on Christmas day that it might not be a duck? Think about it, Breyer State does not sell
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> their degrees, you work hard to earn them, and they are up front with their accreditation from the
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> beginning. You can't claim a cow is a duck and you can't claim Breyer State is a diploma mill. The
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff said about Breyer is gossip pure and simple, there is nothing to back these claims up besides the
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact that they are not approved by the USDE. And there are plenty of schools that are not government
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> approved and yet no one gives them flack.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/16/08, Alan C wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So you do a lot of work for a school that most of the world considers to be a diploma mill? My
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question is why? There are many other distance alternatives.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan C
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

     
     

 
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