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Re: Nonbar Juris Doctorate Degree has Value
Posted by JT on 4/22/08

    You just quoted your course work. Solo practice? Means you're probably not working much since there are hundreds of unemployed lawyers in
    Ca.

    On 4/22/08, so tell us all your qualifications wrote:
    > solo practice, personal injury, tax law, adminstrative law,
    > insurance rights law.
    >
    > On 4/22/08, JT wrote:
    >> Where do you practice? Which law firm do you work for?
    >>
    >> On 4/22/08, yes you can do pro bono if admitted wrote:
    >>> nah I dont get it, I got both my J.D. and my LL.M degrees
    >>> at an ABA law school, WHERE BY THE WAY, they dont
    >>> have non bar law degrees. But thanks for your concern.
    >>>
    >>> On 4/22/08, JT wrote:
    >>>> You're completely missing the point!! I passed the bar but don't practice, except for some pro bono stuff on the side for family
    >>>> and friends. The bar was actually a big waste of time and money. My greatest value was the "legal education" My employer didn't
    >>>> ask for a copy of my bar, but they did ask for a copy of my transcripts. The bottom line is that if you don't plan to practice law
    >>>> and only want the "EDUCATION" go for the eJD. Get it???
    >>>>
    >>>> On 4/22/08, there is a huge difference wrote:
    >>>>> But was it a "non bar" "executive law degree?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Or was it a bar qualifying non ABA degree?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> There is a huge difference. If you have a non ABA
    >>>>> law degree that "qualifies you for the bar even
    >>>>> if you arent a member of bar you are ok.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> its those stupid eJD or "non bar" degree from
    >>>>> Breyer or Novus that are worthless.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> As for a california "executive J.D. why bother?
    >>>>> just go one more year and get real J.D. degree
    >>>>> and become an attorney.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> On 4/22/08, JT wrote:
    >>>>>> A teaching job!! lol You crack me up dude. I work for a major corp and my non ABA school got me there. You obviously don't
    >>>>>> have a clue.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> On 4/22/08, no value if unaccredited wrote:
    >>>>>>> an "executive" or "non bar" law degree from Breyer State or Novus
    >>>>>>> or any of these other non ABA accredited or non
    >>>>>>> regionally accredited law schools is toilet paper.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> It will not get you a teaching job, it will not land you
    >>>>>>> a job in a major corporation because it will NOT be
    >>>>>>> accepted by Human Resources.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> The only purpose of a "real" law degree is to be
    >>>>>>> an attorney.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> That is why they dont have "non hospital" medical degrees
    >>>>>>> or "non surgery" dental degrees.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> On 4/22/08, Gary wrote:
    >>>>>>>> That's BS. If you complete your law degree from any law school accredited or not, it's still a law degree. You're not an
    >>>>>>>> attorney until you pass the bar, but you still have a JD. Your comments are rediculous. What are you...like 12?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> On 4/22/08, Ask employers or universities, they will say no wrote:
    >>>>>>>>> The issue here is bar v. non bar.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> The purpose of a Juris Doctor degree is the professional
    >>>>>>>>> law degree for the purposes of being an attorney and
    >>>>>>>>> practicing law. True, one could graduate from Harvard Law School,
    >>>>>>>>> or Yale Law School, University of Southern California Law School,
    >>>>>>>>> University of Texas Law School, etc. and not take the bar and
    >>>>>>>>> yet the degree is regionally accredited and ABA accredited
    >>>>>>>>> and thus is very valuable and will be accepted in the real world.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> The above mentioned law schools dont offer "non-bar" law degrees,
    >>>>>>>>> they are "real law schools".
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> An unaccredited J.D. degree is valuable if it allows the person
    >>>>>>>>> to be admitted to the bar and thus be an attorney.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> A so called executive Juris Doctor degree is useless.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Can not be used to get a teaching job, can not be used
    >>>>>>>>> to be an attorney and is NOT accepted at major fortunate
    >>>>>>>>> 500 companies "as a law degree".
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Just read some law books for knowledge, and print out
    >>>>>>>>> a nice looking Juris Doctor certificate on your laser printer
    >>>>>>>>> and save yourself the money.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> On 4/22/08, Value is Relative wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>> A "nonbar Juris Doctorate" does have value, it represents that effort and study time invested in earning it. The
    >>>>>>>>>> individual who earned the executive JD or nonbar JD degree places a value on it. There are many Californians who
    >>>>>>>>>> earned nonbar JDs that would argue that the eJD has helped them in their careers. The study of law must be beneficial
    >>>>>>>>>> even when students don't graduate, most students learn something. I think the value is relative (Judge Cardozo).
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> By your reasoning:
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> A holder of a BA/MS in Accounting is worthless because she is not a licensed CPA.
    >>>>>>>>>> A holder of a BA/MS in biology is worthless because he is not a licensed M.D.
    >>>>>>>>>> A holder of a BA in Education is worthless because she is not a certified teacher.
    >>>>>>>>>> A holder of an MSL/JD in Law is worthless because he is not a licensed attorney
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Yet we have millions of:
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Unlicensed CPAs, they are called bookeepers.
    >>>>>>>>>> Unlicensed M.D.s, they are called cancer researchers.
    >>>>>>>>>> Unlicensed Teachers, they are assitant teachers,librarians and in some states contracted teachers.
    >>>>>>>>>> Unlicensed JDs, they are called paralegals.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> If I had a nonbar JD and an employer(or anyone) laughed at me, I would ask one simple question. "Wheres yours? (eJD)
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Come on ladies and gentlemen, law students are supposed to be open minded. How can we help the clients if we can only
    >>>>>>>>>> think in one direction.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/08, It actually has no value at all wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>>> Such a "non bar" degree is useless in the real world. You tell
    >>>>>>>>>>> an Employer your "law degree" doesnt allow you to be admitted
    >>>>>>>>>>> to the bar but it is still a law degree
    >>>>>>>>>>> after Human Resources stops laughing, you will
    >>>>>>>>>>> be shown the door.
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>> Further, no goverment agency accepts "non bar" law degrees.
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>> Save yourself the money a "law degree" from Breyer State is worthless.
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>> Print yourself a Juris Doctor degree on your laster printer.
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/08, Eli wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>>>> Most online distance learning law schools in California were awarding the nonbar Juris Dotorate until 12/31/2007.
    >>>>>>>>>>>> I believe the CalBar website now says that the nonbar JD cannot be awarded by California law schools. Calbar rules
    >>>>>>>>>>>> donot impact out of state law schools. Breyer State University still offers a nonbar Juris Doctorate. Some CAl
    >>>>>>>>>>>> online DL law schools now offer nonbar law students a Masters of Law (MSL) or a Masters of Science in Law. The MSL
    >>>>>>>>>>>> degree is now awarded to students that previously would have been admitted to the nonbar JD programs and would
    >>>>>>>>>>>> have earned a nonbar or eJD law degree.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> Also, the value of the MSL or the nonbar JDs is not in that they will qualify students to take the bar exam,
    >>>>>>>>>>>> because they won't. The value of the MSL or nonbar JD is in the completing of a law study program. This study of
    >>>>>>>>>>>> law in nonbar programs provide a structured legal curriculum that can prepare students for collateral law-type or
    >>>>>>>>>>>> quasi-law professions. Some students just want the legal knowledge for personal satisfaction or to use in their
    >>>>>>>>>>>> own business. Yet some other students just want to be able to say that they earned a JD degree.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/08, A real J.D. and a real LL.M here wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> Who on earth would go to Breyer State and get a "non Bar" "Law degree" ?
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> What is next; Breyer State offers "non Hospital" "Medical degree" ?
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no such thing as a non bar Juris Doctor degree.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> The Juris Doctor is for the practice of law and the Doctor of Medicine
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> degree is for the practice of medicine.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> The state of bar of california does NOT allow the awarding of the Juris Doctor
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> degree unless it qualfies the person to take the General Bar Exam.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> Check the Calif bar website law school rules.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> Instead of paying for Breyer State "juris doctor" degree just print one out
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> on your laser printer. It will have same acceptance to employers and government
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> agencies.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/08, Alan C wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So you don't think there's a difference between AWARDING an honorary degree and SELLING an honorary degree?
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regardless, the rest of the world considers Breyer State a diploma mill and that's what matters.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan C
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/08, Ed wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I checked this out Alan. From their site:
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "1). An honorary degree and not an earned academic degree - interesting....
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2). That they agree to sign the initials Ph.D(hon) in cases where they use this honor. - hmmm
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3). That the honorary doctorate degree does not meet any type of requirements for licensing or
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> certifications,
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or any type of specific employment. - Go on.....
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4). That the candidate abides by the university policy to never misrepresent the degree, and are clear as to
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the designation of the degree as honorary in any and all uses of the degree title." - Wiw it doesn't sound
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like you can use this degree for anything in the job market or in the academic world?!?
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This sounds like it might be a problem here..... AND wait there's more. LSU The national champions in NCAA
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> football also sell degrees too! http://www.lsuhsc.edu/no/administration/pm/pm-7.aspx Just read here. Wait
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wait wait a minute... the team they played Ohio State...
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://senate.osu.edu/committees/Honorary_Degrees/HDGuidelines.html Oh My God Alan.... They all must be
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> diploma mills because all three universities HAVE HONORARY DOCTORATES?!?!?!
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So let me anticipate your response here: LSU and OSU selling honorary doctorates is ok right? Because they
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are well known brick and mortar universities?? However BSU isn't because they are online? Plus they also
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pocket all the tuition too from the honor doc? Well read this:
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Upon final approval by the administration, the candidate for the honorary doctorate degree will make a
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contribution to the University of $750.00. This contribution will be shared with various charitable
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> organizations as selected by the administration."
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hmmm this sounds like a scam here.... an honorary doctorate program offered from a university?!? A person
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pays for a diploma that says "Honorary Doctorate" on it. That person proves they have experience to warrant
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such an honor, then is told that it is not an academic degree and will not qualify for licensing... AND THEN
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Breyer State gives the tuition away to charitable organizations!?!?! GREAT CAESAR'S GHOST!!!! Alan you have
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> done it... My mind has been changed. I am withdrawing from all courses and demanding my money back this very
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moment! You sir are a crusader of education, a paladin of knowledge, & a protector of learners everywhere.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you don't get a metal for this I will be shocked! -me rolls eyes.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seriously do you work for another online university? Is Breyer State stealing your thunder? Did Breyer
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> State sleep with your girlfriend? If this was the best reason you could come up with to defend your
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>> argument,
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not going to take anything you say seriously from now on and neither should anyone else.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/17/08, Alan C wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually Breyer State does sell degrees. Just check out their link to honorary degrees.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.breyerstate.com/honorary-info.htm
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan C
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/17/08, Ed wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is one way to look at it... However did you ever think that if it doesn't quack, can't swim, and it
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't served on Christmas day that it might not be a duck? Think about it, Breyer State does not sell
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their degrees, you work hard to earn them, and they are up front with their accreditation from the
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beginning. You can't claim a cow is a duck and you can't claim Breyer State is a diploma mill. The
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff said about Breyer is gossip pure and simple, there is nothing to back these claims up besides the
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact that they are not approved by the USDE. And there are plenty of schools that are not government
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> approved and yet no one gives them flack.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/16/08, Alan C wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So you do a lot of work for a school that most of the world considers to be a diploma mill? My
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question is why? There are many other distance alternatives.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan C
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

     
     

 
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