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Re: Distance JD - Then "NOT" Taking the Bar
Posted by Crown Prince on 9/06/08
If you went to the U of Chicago for law school (for real) then I will eat my shorts.
Many of the founders of our great nation looked down on John Adams, a graduate of Harvard Law
School (which was considered far inferior to William and Mary College at the time). Adams was one
of the greatest lawyers of his time. As was Lincoln. As was Clarence Darrow. Just because
Ruth "Im an ugly sleaze" Ginsberg looks down on DL law schools doesn't mean they don't produce
excellent graduates.
I will take my J.D. (when I get it) from West Coast and put it up against your "ABA law school"
anytime.
What is your full name so I can look you up on Chicago's Bar Website? Seriously. Or are you a
Pu$$y?
Chicken? What firm are you with? Have you even passed the bar? Prove it.
Crown Prince
On 9/06/08, I got ABA law degree wrote:
> I have an MPA from a school that I guarantee is better than the school you got
>> your "ABA JD" from).
>
> wrong again.........University of Chicago Law School here.
>
> Dude.......West Coast School of Law is run out of a spare
> bedroom in a guy's house, lol !!!!
>
> Come on, you are delirious about your "law degree"!
>
> Lets take my law degree and your "law degree" and
> go on TV and see how it goes.
>
> We can ask people to call and write in and see who
> they would hire and which one is a real law degree
> and which one came from a law school run from some guy's
> house, lol.
>
> god I hate California unaccredited law schools
>
> On 9/06/08, Crown Prince wrote:
>> I am in a bar-track distance learning J.D. program with West Coast School of Law and take the
>> bar, all things being equal in Feb. of 2011.
>>
>> Taking and passing the FYLSE ("baby bar") is harder than any exam you have probably ever
>> taken (with the exception of the bar, if you have taken it) in law school. Trust me. I went
>> to an ABA law school (3rd tier--only evening program within driving distance) for a while
>> before job and family responsibilities forced me to withdraw in good standing. Active duty
>> military responsibilities came first. Sorry.
>>
>> I think eJDs are not worthless pieces of paper. Many people seek legal knowledge and do not
>> seek to practice law but want something to show for it. I personally think they are a waste
>> of time, but that is just my opinion, and opinions are like a$$es...
>>
>> Many of us are accomplished in our careers and have obtained graduate degrees from other top
>> schools (I have an MPA from a school that I guarantee is better than the school you got
>> your "ABA JD" from).
>>
>> Go take your prozac.
>>
>> Crown Prince
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/06/08, I got an ABA degree wrote:
>>> I graduated from an ABA law school with a real degree.
>>>
>>> Your eJD degree is a worthless piece of paper.
>>>
>>> Lets go on TV and you put up your laser printed
>>> eJD degree and my ABA law degree and lets see how
>>> many people laugh take you serious.
>>>
>>> Again.......another wannabe fake law degree holder
>>> that couldnt pass the bar. unaccredited law degrees
>>> and snake oil......
>>>
>>> Geez....how pathetic another mail order law degree
>>> holder that really thinks they have a law degree, lol.
>>>
>>> On 9/06/08, Crown Prince wrote:
>>>> This is another example of how ABA is not better.
>>>>
>>>> First and foremost, you are incorrect. I have included the statute below my posting. The
>>>> bachelor's degree doesn't even have to be accredited. Don't believe me, read the statute.
>>>> All I did was show the clerk (who could have cared less) a copy of my diploma. Didn't
>>>> even have to show transcripts.
>>>>
>>>> Second, any idiot can do a bankruptcy. When I worked for a real estate attorney, he had a
>>>> bankruptcy come in and asked if I wanted to do it. I told him sure. Got it done in a few
>>>> hours. Typing in the figures on the typewriter took most of the time because he didn't
>>>> have a bankruptcy software program. ANY IDIOT CAN DO IT. I have done wills, powers of
>>>> attorney, trusts, and the like. I know LDAs who are also making over 100K a year.
>>>>
>>>> EJDs are able to be conferred by the current state bar rules. Do you really want me to
>>>> post another statute? Do your homework. It is also recognized. You just can't practice
>>>> law with it. If it makes people feel better, why
>>>>
>>>> I think that you are just kinda angry that someone can legally do a bankruptcy or a will
>>>> without having shelled out nearly 100K on an ABA law degree.
>>>>
>>>> The only thing worse is us dumb folk who are shelling out a total of $6000 for four years
>>>> and a shot at the bar (Feb. 2011---I can't wait!). Stop being a hater. If you really did
>>>> graduate from an ABA school, why are you wasting your time on this chatboard
>>>> disseminating incorrect information and putting down people who are trying to make a
>>>> difference or a buck in the legal profession.
>>>>
>>>> Get over it and get a job! You could have been halfway done with a bankruptcy already :)
>>>>
>>>> Crown Prince
>>>>
>>>> 18. What are the educational requirements for registering? [Section 6402.1]
>>>> To be eligible to apply for registration under this chapter as a legal document
>>>> assistant, the applicant shall possess at least one of the following:
>>>>
>>>> A high school diploma or general equivalency diploma, and either a minimum of two years
>>>> of law-related experience under the supervision of a licensed attorney, or a minimum of
>>>> two years experience, prior to January 1, 1999, providing self-help service.
>>>> A baccalaureate degree in any field and either a minimum of one year law-related
>>>> experience under the supervision of a licensed attorney, or a minimum of one year of
>>>> experience, prior to January 1, 1999, providing self-help service.
>>>> A certificate of completion from a paralegal program that is institutionally accredited
>>>> but not approved by the American Bar Association, that requires successful completion of
>>>> a minimum of 24 semester units, or the equivalent, in legal specialization courses.
>>>> A certificate of completion from a paralegal program approved by the American Bar
>>>> Association.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/06/08, I got an ABA degree wrote:
>>>>> eJD "degree" does NOT meet any Legal Document License requirements whatsoever.
>>>>>
>>>>> An eJD degree is NOT recognized by any California Adminstrative or
>>>>> licensing agency whatsoever ! period. end of discussion on that.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is and remains an oversold hyped oversold piece of paper with
>>>>> no controlling legal authority.
>>>>>
>>>>> An earned J.D. degree that is bar qualifying however, is sanctioned
>>>>> by statute and is legally authorized to be conferred by the new State
>>>>> Bar rules.
>>>>>
>>>>> The J.D. is useless for legal document preparation.....law school
>>>>> does not teach the practice of law or filling out of legal procedural
>>>>> paperwork...In this case it is just another dreamer that wants so bad
>>>>> to say, hey I have a law degree, or hey I have a J.D. degree let me
>>>>> help you with your divorce, probate paperwork, restraining order or
>>>>> help you fill out documents for the court. Its a joke....
>>>>>
>>>>> I never learned anything in law school about filling out paperwork
>>>>> and after I graduated I had to learn everything from lawyers who learned
>>>>> from other lawyers...the hard humilating way.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/06/08, Crown Prince wrote:
>>>>>> I agree with the spirit of what you posted. However, you are incorrect. Having a EJD
>>>>>> can actually contribute to the necessary education required to become a LDA in any of
>>>>>> California's counties. I know, because I am one. I didn't use an EJD (I had a
>>>>>> regionally accredited BA and MPA to satisfy mine). Educational only, though.
>>>>>> Experience is another issue. However, I do agree about hanging the JD on the wall---
>>>>>> not a good idea--UPOL is definitely something to be leary of. All it takes is one
>>>>>> client to pull the rug out from under you. One picture of that JD on the wall and you
>>>>>> are history, perhaps behind bars...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By the way, as to the original poster, if you think you can make that much doing
>>>>>> document preparation, even in a big city, you are bonkers. But hey, whatever floats
>>>>>> your boat...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Crown Prince
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/06/08, I got an ABA degree wrote:
>>>>>>> Better bone up on California law.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Legal Document Preparation requires meeting
>>>>>>> specific educational requirements not a single
>>>>>>> one which is met by a useless and worthless eJD degree.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The purpose of a JD degree is legal theory and doctrine
>>>>>>> of contracts, torts, criminal procedure, constitional
>>>>>>> law and a whole host of other subjects designed
>>>>>>> to make one pass the bar exam by testing their
>>>>>>> knowledge of legal theory and doctrine, none of which
>>>>>>> in law school prepares one for the procedural paperwork aspect
>>>>>>> of law. One is like being a Doctor and the other the Nurse.
>>>>>>> In this case YOU would be the nurse and not the doctor so
>>>>>>> a doctorate degree from an unaccredited law school would be
>>>>>>> and is useless for a legal document preparer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dont waste your money on a eJD. You must take specific
>>>>>>> paralegal document preparation courses to meet California
>>>>>>> law.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Telling someone you have a eJD degree while preparing their
>>>>>>> restraining order or child custody hearing motion will mean
>>>>>>> nothing and could constitute the practice of law if they perceive
>>>>>>> you are telling them about your unaccredited eJD degree and how
>>>>>>> and why that degree lets you help them fill out their document.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dont start a legal document preparation business and hang that
>>>>>>> eJD degree anywhere near your "customers".....One mistake and
>>>>>>> the customer hires a real lawyer with a real J.D. degree and
>>>>>>> you will find out real fast how much trouble you really are in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9/06/08, Don't Want Bar Exam wrote:
>>>>>>>> I just want to learn law in my DL eJD program and later become the best darn top
>>>>>>>> notch registered California Legal Document Assistant/Mediator/Notary Public. I'll
>>>>>>>> let the smart students become lawyers and do all the hard work, they can have all
>>>>>>>> the fame and glory. I just want to sell legal documents like divorces, wills,
>>>>>>>> LLCs, name changes, power of attorney and small claims documents, . I want to be
>>>>>>>> just like LegalZoom. But smaller and I don't need to be a multi-billion dollar
>>>>>>>> business, I'll settle for 2 or 3 million, I mean why be greedy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 9/06/08, Crown Prince wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I agree. Believe me, I tried to find loopholes to make it faster myself. There
>>>>>>>>> are none. If you seriously think you can take the bar in any jurisdiction by
>>>>>>>>> taking a non-bar track DL JD program, you also probably think Barack Obama
>>>>>>>>> would make a good president.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do your research, contact your respective state bar(s), and post information if
>>>>>>>>> it is relevant.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I, unlike some of the other posters, don't mind the questions, as it allows us
>>>>>>>>> to quash them and set people straight. Besides, they are always useful for a
>>>>>>>>> good laugh...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Crown Prince
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 9/06/08, I got ABA degree wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> YOU should spent less time trying to get around
>>>>>>>>>> the ABA admission rules outside of California.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you dont want to practice in California just
>>>>>>>>>> get ABA J.D. degree. simple.......why post on
>>>>>>>>>> and on about it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 9/06/08, Carrington wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Any way to delete posts? The number of asses responding with no useful
>>>>>>>>>>> information is a bit tiresome since I'm getting emailed responses. Look,
>>>>>>>>>>> seriously, the question has been answered and those of you who have
>>>>>>>>>> nothing
>>>>>>>>>>> better to do than to flame on an open message board, please choose a new
>>>>>>>>>>> thread. Or, perhaps get a hobby or for your fancy lawyers, find a client
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> bill while you actually do some work.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/06/08, already got my ABA degree wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lawyer, wannabe......you do the work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pick one of the 50 states you wanna practice law in.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Go to the state bar website and READ the rules.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If they dont accept non ABA J.D. degree then pick another state
>>>>>>>>>>>> or apply to an ABA law school.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Geez........so simple yet so hard to do, lol
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/06/08, -- wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/05/08, Your State Bar and only your State Bar has the rules
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A few states have LIMITED exceptions. A handful of states
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will accept non ABA J.D. and just a couple, I can count on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one hand will even accept non ABA correspondence J.D. degree.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately you don't cite which states accept non-ABA
>>>>>>>>>>>> correspondence
>>>>>>>>>>>>> JD degrees. CA is one -- as far as I know the only one for a first
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time bar exam applicant. Give us the benefit of your superior
>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge and list the few other states. Frankly -- I think you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> incorrect. Not ONE other state will accept non-ABA distance learning
>>>>>>>>>>>>> JD to sit for the bar the first time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you cant (sic) read and understand any particular state's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rules for bar admission then your reading level will not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be sufficient to graduate from law school, let alone pass
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any state bar exam.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Webster, as long as you bad rap other posters' reading and writing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> skills, I guess I should point out that there's an apostrophe in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't. Also California is capitalized -- I won't go on but your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> writing skills are not nearly as perfect as your criticism of others.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You shouldn't hold other people to a higher standard than you hold
>>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself. How do you spell hypocrite?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Even out of the "thousands" that attend california unaccredited
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law schools only a few dozen pass the bar exam each time the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exam is held. Every year thousands of law students attend California
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unaccredited law schools, there are dozens and dozens of them in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> California and only a handful pass the exam.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, CA has a lot of non-ABA graduates who practice. My cousin
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a judge in Fresno CA. She graduated from San Joaquin College of Law
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (non-ABA). Over 25 percent of practicing lawyers in Central CA are
>>>>>>>>>>>> non-
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ABA graduates. Well like you said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Who in their right mind would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> come here to this site and rely
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on someone's story or hearsay
>>>>>>>>>>>>> information about bar admission
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in a particular state? lol"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well fellow, you certainly proved your point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> PS:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> For what it's worth, I graduated from a top tier ABA school last
>>>>>>>>>>>>> semester and clerk for our state's appellate court. I think ABA is
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> best way to go but not the only way -- at least in CA.
>>>>>>>>>>>
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