1996 - 2008. All Rights Reserved. Please review our Terms of Use, Mission Statement, and Privacy Policy.
Re: Distance JD - Then "NOT" Taking the Bar
Posted by Don't Want to Take Bar Exam on 9/07/08
Go to LegalZoom.com, I believe Attorney Robert Shapiro is co-founder of LegalZoom.com. He is also one
sharp lawyer. He approves of form fillers and legal document assistants and LegalZoom makes millions
doing it. Remember Law can be a business as well as a vocation.
I think telling someone you have an eJD is protected speech. 1st Amendment!!!
It is not a crime to say you that you have a law degree, medical degree, engineering degree or basket
weaving degree. But you must make it crystal clear when you are filling out the legal forms that you
are not a member of the CA bar in good standing or a licensed lawyer, that you don't give legal
advice. Having clients sign an ackknowledgement notice to this regard is very likely a good idea.
Maybe a big classy sign posted behind you on the wall that states : "I am not an Attorney, just a
legal documents Assistant or preparer, here to serve you."
I say I'll will happily fill out legal forms, sell self-help books and run the documents to the court
any day if I can build a multi-million dollar business like LegalZoom.
As for unhappy clients wanting to get you in trouble with the bar for UPL or trying to put you out of
the legal document business by tryng to get your LDP certificate revoke. I say every case is evaluated
on its merits, if you did a good job, had safeguards in place and did not break the law, you (LDA)
should be ok.
Many lawyers get in trouble too. I know lawyers who get very upset when complaints are filed against
them with the State Bar. Its not nice. Many of those complaints are frivolous and from clients who
simply didn't like the results or outcome produced by the courts. Some clients don't want to pay the
attorney his fee. Clients file frivolous complaints so that lawyers will stop collection actions. Many
clients are "complaint happy".
I disagree with Crown Prince, not any idiot can prepare a bankruptcy petition and forms. The legal
document preparer must be competent to at least a minimum standard.
Somebody posted here and said:
>
> "I am a licensed attorney, not a freakin document filler
> and court runner like you."
>
> "You sure have alot of faith in your correspondence J.D. degree."
CP said:
>>>>>> "First and foremost, you are incorrect. I have included the statute below my posting. The
>>>>>> bachelor's degree doesn't even have to be accredited. Don't believe me, read the statute.
>>>>>> All I did was show the clerk (who could have cared less) a copy of my diploma. Didn't
>>>>>> even have to show transcripts. "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Second, any idiot can do a bankruptcy. When I worked for a real estate attorney, he had a
>>>>>> bankruptcy come in and asked if I wanted to do it. I told him sure. Got it done in a few
>>>>>> hours. Typing in the figures on the typewriter took most of the time because he didn't
>>>>>> have a bankruptcy software program. ANY IDIOT CAN DO IT. I have done wills, powers of
>>>>>> attorney, trusts, and the like. I know LDAs who are also making over 100K a year."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "EJDs are able to be conferred by the current state bar rules. Do you really want me to
>>>>>> post another statute? Do your homework. It is also recognized. You just can't practice
>>>>>> law with it. If it makes people feel better, why "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "I think that you are just kinda angry that someone can legally do a bankruptcy or a will
>>>>>> without having shelled out nearly 100K on an ABA law degree. "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The only thing worse is us dumb folk who are shelling out a total of $6000 for four years
>>>>>> and a shot at the bar (Feb. 2011---I can't wait!). Stop being a hater. If you really did
>>>>>> graduate from an ABA school, why are you wasting your time on this chatboard
>>>>>> disseminating incorrect information and putting down people who are trying to make a
>>>>>> difference or a buck in the legal profession. "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Get over it and get a job! You could have been halfway done with a bankruptcy already :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Crown Prince
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "18. What are the educational requirements for registering? [Section 6402.1]
>>>>>> To be eligible to apply for registration under this chapter as a legal document
>>>>>> assistant, the applicant shall possess at least one of the following:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A high school diploma or general equivalency diploma, and either a minimum of two years
>>>>>> of law-related experience under the supervision of a licensed attorney, or a minimum of
>>>>>> two years experience, prior to January 1, 1999, providing self-help service.
>>>>>> A baccalaureate degree in any field and either a minimum of one year law-related
>>>>>> experience under the supervision of a licensed attorney, or a minimum of one year of
>>>>>> experience, prior to January 1, 1999, providing self-help service.
>>>>>> A certificate of completion from a paralegal program that is institutionally accredited
>>>>>> but not approved by the American Bar Association, that requires successful completion of
>>>>>> a minimum of 24 semester units, or the equivalent, in legal specialization courses.
>>>>>> A certificate of completion from a paralegal program approved by the American Bar
>>>>>> Association. "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Somebody on here said:
>>>>>> On 9/06/08, I got an ABA degree wrote:
>>>>>>> eJD "degree" does NOT meet any Legal Document License requirements whatsoever.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> An eJD degree is NOT recognized by any California Adminstrative or
>>>>>>> licensing agency whatsoever ! period. end of discussion on that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is and remains an oversold hyped oversold piece of paper with
>>>>>>> no controlling legal authority.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> An earned J.D. degree that is bar qualifying however, is sanctioned
>>>>>>> by statute and is legally authorized to be conferred by the new State
>>>>>>> Bar rules.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The J.D. is useless for legal document preparation.....law school
>>>>>>> does not teach the practice of law or filling out of legal procedural
>>>>>>> paperwork...In this case it is just another dreamer that wants so bad
>>>>>>> to say, hey I have a law degree, or hey I have a J.D. degree let me
>>>>>>> help you with your divorce, probate paperwork, restraining order or
>>>>>>> help you fill out documents for the court. Its a joke....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I never learned anything in law school about filling out paperwork
>>>>>>> and after I graduated I had to learn everything from lawyers who learned
>>>>>>> from other lawyers...the hard humilating way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9/06/08, Crown Prince wrote:
>>>>>>>> I agree with the spirit of what you posted. However, you are incorrect. Having a EJD
>>>>>>>> can actually contribute to the necessary education required to become a LDA in any of
>>>>>>>> California's counties. I know, because I am one. I didn't use an EJD (I had a
>>>>>>>> regionally accredited BA and MPA to satisfy mine). Educational only, though.
>>>>>>>> Experience is another issue. However, I do agree about hanging the JD on the wall---
>>>>>>>> not a good idea--UPOL is definitely something to be leary of. All it takes is one
>>>>>>>> client to pull the rug out from under you. One picture of that JD on the wall and you
>>>>>>>> are history, perhaps behind bars...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> By the way, as to the original poster, if you think you can make that much doing
>>>>>>>> document preparation, even in a big city, you are bonkers. But hey, whatever floats
>>>>>>>> your boat...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Crown Prince
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 9/06/08, I got an ABA degree wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Better bone up on California law.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Legal Document Preparation requires meeting
>>>>>>>>> specific educational requirements not a single
>>>>>>>>> one which is met by a useless and worthless eJD degree.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The purpose of a JD degree is legal theory and doctrine
>>>>>>>>> of contracts, torts, criminal procedure, constitional
>>>>>>>>> law and a whole host of other subjects designed
>>>>>>>>> to make one pass the bar exam by testing their
>>>>>>>>> knowledge of legal theory and doctrine, none of which
>>>>>>>>> in law school prepares one for the procedural paperwork aspect
>>>>>>>>> of law. One is like being a Doctor and the other the Nurse.
>>>>>>>>> In this case YOU would be the nurse and not the doctor so
>>>>>>>>> a doctorate degree from an unaccredited law school would be
>>>>>>>>> and is useless for a legal document preparer.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dont waste your money on a eJD. You must take specific
>>>>>>>>> paralegal document preparation courses to meet California
>>>>>>>>> law.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> Telling someone you have a eJD degree while preparing their
>>> restraining order or child custody hearing motion will mean
>>> nothing and could constitute the practice of law if they perceive
>>> you are telling them about your unaccredited eJD degree and how
>>> and why that degree lets you help them fill out their document.
>
>>>>> Dont start a legal document preparation business and hang that
>>>>> eJD degree anywhere near your "customers".....One mistake and
>>>> the customer hires a real lawyer with a real J.D. degree and
>>>> you will find out real fast how much trouble you really are in.
>
>
>>>>> On 9/06/08, Don't Want Bar Exam wrote:
>>>>> I just want to learn law in my DL eJD program and later become the best darn top
>>>>> notch registered California Legal Document Assistant/Mediator/Notary Public. I'll
>>>>> let the smart students become lawyers and do all the hard work, they can have all
>>>>> the fame and glory. I just want to sell legal documents like divorces, wills,
>>>>> LLCs, name changes, power of attorney and small claims documents, . I want to be
>>>>> just like LegalZoom. But smaller and I don't need to be a multi-billion dollar
>>>>> business, I'll settle for 2 or 3 million, I mean why be greedy.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On 9/06/08, Crown Prince wrote:
>>>> I agree. Believe me, I tried to find loopholes to make it faster myself. There
>>>>>are none. If you seriously think you can take the bar in any jurisdiction by
>>>>>taking a non-bar track DL JD program, you also probably think Barack Obama
>>>>>would make a good president.
>>>>>
>>>>>Do your research, contact your respective state bar(s), and post information if
>>>>>it is relevant.
>>>>>
>>>>I, unlike some of the other posters, don't mind the questions, as it allows us
>>>>>to quash them and set people straight. Besides, they are always useful for a
>>>>>good laugh...
>>>>>Crown Prince
|
|
|
| © 1996 - 2008. All Rights Reserved. Please review our Terms of Use, Mission Statement, and Privacy Policy. |