Re: Distance JD - Then "NOT" Taking the Bar
Posted by Crown Prince on 9/07/08
If you can't do paperwork for bankruptcy, then something is wrong with you.
I never said I had a JD yet---I am a law student. Yes, go ahead and post your JD from Chicago. What is
your name so we can look it up on the state bar's website?
Crown Prince
On 9/07/08, Don't Want to Take Bar Exam wrote:
> Go to LegalZoom.com, I believe Attorney Robert Shapiro is co-founder of LegalZoom.com. He is also one
> sharp lawyer. He approves of form fillers and legal document assistants and LegalZoom makes millions
> doing it. Remember Law can be a business as well as a vocation.
>
> I think telling someone you have an eJD is protected speech. 1st Amendment!!!
>
> It is not a crime to say you that you have a law degree, medical degree, engineering degree or basket
> weaving degree. But you must make it crystal clear when you are filling out the legal forms that you
> are not a member of the CA bar in good standing or a licensed lawyer, that you don't give legal
> advice. Having clients sign an ackknowledgement notice to this regard is very likely a good idea.
> Maybe a big classy sign posted behind you on the wall that states : "I am not an Attorney, just a
> legal documents Assistant or preparer, here to serve you."
>
> I say I'll will happily fill out legal forms, sell self-help books and run the documents to the court
> any day if I can build a multi-million dollar business like LegalZoom.
>
> As for unhappy clients wanting to get you in trouble with the bar for UPL or trying to put you out of
> the legal document business by tryng to get your LDP certificate revoke. I say every case is evaluated
> on its merits, if you did a good job, had safeguards in place and did not break the law, you (LDA)
> should be ok.
>
> Many lawyers get in trouble too. I know lawyers who get very upset when complaints are filed against
> them with the State Bar. Its not nice. Many of those complaints are frivolous and from clients who
> simply didn't like the results or outcome produced by the courts. Some clients don't want to pay the
> attorney his fee. Clients file frivolous complaints so that lawyers will stop collection actions. Many
> clients are "complaint happy".
>
> I disagree with Crown Prince, not any idiot can prepare a bankruptcy petition and forms. The legal
> document preparer must be competent to at least a minimum standard.
>
>
> Somebody posted here and said:
>>
>> "I am a licensed attorney, not a freakin document filler
>> and court runner like you."
>>
>> "You sure have alot of faith in your correspondence J.D. degree."
>
>
> CP said:
>
>>>>>>> "First and foremost, you are incorrect. I have included the statute below my posting. The
>>>>>>> bachelor's degree doesn't even have to be accredited. Don't believe me, read the statute.
>>>>>>> All I did was show the clerk (who could have cared less) a copy of my diploma. Didn't
>>>>>>> even have to show transcripts. "
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Second, any idiot can do a bankruptcy. When I worked for a real estate attorney, he had a
>>>>>>> bankruptcy come in and asked if I wanted to do it. I told him sure. Got it done in a few
>>>>>>> hours. Typing in the figures on the typewriter took most of the time because he didn't
>>>>>>> have a bankruptcy software program. ANY IDIOT CAN DO IT. I have done wills, powers of
>>>>>>> attorney, trusts, and the like. I know LDAs who are also making over 100K a year."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "EJDs are able to be conferred by the current state bar rules. Do you really want me to
>>>>>>> post another statute? Do your homework. It is also recognized. You just can't practice
>>>>>>> law with it. If it makes people feel better, why "
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "I think that you are just kinda angry that someone can legally do a bankruptcy or a will
>>>>>>> without having shelled out nearly 100K on an ABA law degree. "
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "The only thing worse is us dumb folk who are shelling out a total of $6000 for four years
>>>>>>> and a shot at the bar (Feb. 2011---I can't wait!). Stop being a hater. If you really did
>>>>>>> graduate from an ABA school, why are you wasting your time on this chatboard
>>>>>>> disseminating incorrect information and putting down people who are trying to make a
>>>>>>> difference or a buck in the legal profession. "
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Get over it and get a job! You could have been halfway done with a bankruptcy already :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Crown Prince
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "18. What are the educational requirements for registering? [Section 6402.1]
>>>>>>> To be eligible to apply for registration under this chapter as a legal document
>>>>>>> assistant, the applicant shall possess at least one of the following:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A high school diploma or general equivalency diploma, and either a minimum of two years
>>>>>>> of law-related experience under the supervision of a licensed attorney, or a minimum of
>>>>>>> two years experience, prior to January 1, 1999, providing self-help service.
>>>>>>> A baccalaureate degree in any field and either a minimum of one year law-related
>>>>>>> experience under the supervision of a licensed attorney, or a minimum of one year of
>>>>>>> experience, prior to January 1, 1999, providing self-help service.
>>>>>>> A certificate of completion from a paralegal program that is institutionally accredited
>>>>>>> but not approved by the American Bar Association, that requires successful completion of
>>>>>>> a minimum of 24 semester units, or the equivalent, in legal specialization courses.
>>>>>>> A certificate of completion from a paralegal program approved by the American Bar
>>>>>>> Association. "
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Somebody on here said:
>
>>>>>>> On 9/06/08, I got an ABA degree wrote:
>>>>>>>> eJD "degree" does NOT meet any Legal Document License requirements whatsoever.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> An eJD degree is NOT recognized by any California Adminstrative or
>>>>>>>> licensing agency whatsoever ! period. end of discussion on that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is and remains an oversold hyped oversold piece of paper with
>>>>>>>> no controlling legal authority.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> An earned J.D. degree that is bar qualifying however, is sanctioned
>>>>>>>> by statute and is legally authorized to be conferred by the new State
>>>>>>>> Bar rules.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The J.D. is useless for legal document preparation.....law school
>>>>>>>> does not teach the practice of law or filling out of legal procedural
>>>>>>>> paperwork...In this case it is just another dreamer that wants so bad
>>>>>>>> to say, hey I have a law degree, or hey I have a J.D. degree let me
>>>>>>>> help you with your divorce, probate paperwork, restraining order or
>>>>>>>> help you fill out documents for the court. Its a joke....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I never learned anything in law school about filling out paperwork
>>>>>>>> and after I graduated I had to learn everything from lawyers who learned
>>>>>>>> from other lawyers...the hard humilating way.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 9/06/08, Crown Prince wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I agree with the spirit of what you posted. However, you are incorrect. Having a EJD
>>>>>>>>> can actually contribute to the necessary education required to become a LDA in any of
>>>>>>>>> California's counties. I know, because I am one. I didn't use an EJD (I had a
>>>>>>>>> regionally accredited BA and MPA to satisfy mine). Educational only, though.
>>>>>>>>> Experience is another issue. However, I do agree about hanging the JD on the wall---
>>>>>>>>> not a good idea--UPOL is definitely something to be leary of. All it takes is one
>>>>>>>>> client to pull the rug out from under you. One picture of that JD on the wall and you
>>>>>>>>> are history, perhaps behind bars...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> By the way, as to the original poster, if you think you can make that much doing
>>>>>>>>> document preparation, even in a big city, you are bonkers. But hey, whatever floats
>>>>>>>>> your boat...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Crown Prince
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 9/06/08, I got an ABA degree wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Better bone up on California law.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Legal Document Preparation requires meeting
>>>>>>>>>> specific educational requirements not a single
>>>>>>>>>> one which is met by a useless and worthless eJD degree.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The purpose of a JD degree is legal theory and doctrine
>>>>>>>>>> of contracts, torts, criminal procedure, constitional
>>>>>>>>>> law and a whole host of other subjects designed
>>>>>>>>>> to make one pass the bar exam by testing their
>>>>>>>>>> knowledge of legal theory and doctrine, none of which
>>>>>>>>>> in law school prepares one for the procedural paperwork aspect
>>>>>>>>>> of law. One is like being a Doctor and the other the Nurse.
>>>>>>>>>> In this case YOU would be the nurse and not the doctor so
>>>>>>>>>> a doctorate degree from an unaccredited law school would be
>>>>>>>>>> and is useless for a legal document preparer.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dont waste your money on a eJD. You must take specific
>>>>>>>>>> paralegal document preparation courses to meet California
>>>>>>>>>> law.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> Telling someone you have a eJD degree while preparing their
>>>> restraining order or child custody hearing motion will mean
>>>> nothing and could constitute the practice of law if they perceive
>>>> you are telling them about your unaccredited eJD degree and how
>>>> and why that degree lets you help them fill out their document.
>>
>>>>>> Dont start a legal document preparation business and hang that
>>>>>> eJD degree anywhere near your "customers".....One mistake and
>>>>> the customer hires a real lawyer with a real J.D. degree and
>>>>> you will find out real fast how much trouble you really are in.
>>
>>
>>>>>> On 9/06/08, Don't Want Bar Exam wrote:
>>>>>> I just want to learn law in my DL eJD program and later become the best darn top
>>>>>> notch registered California Legal Document Assistant/Mediator/Notary Public. I'll
>>>>>> let the smart students become lawyers and do all the hard work, they can have all
>>>>>> the fame and glory. I just want to sell legal documents like divorces, wills,
>>>>>> LLCs, name changes, power of attorney and small claims documents, . I want to be
>>>>>> just like LegalZoom. But smaller and I don't need to be a multi-billion dollar
>>>>>> business, I'll settle for 2 or 3 million, I mean why be greedy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>On 9/06/08, Crown Prince wrote:
>
>>>>> I agree. Believe me, I tried to find loopholes to make it faster myself. There
>>>>>>are none. If you seriously think you can take the bar in any jurisdiction by
>>>>>>taking a non-bar track DL JD program, you also probably think Barack Obama
>>>>>>would make a good president.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Do your research, contact your respective state bar(s), and post information if
>>>>>>it is relevant.
>>>>>>
>>>>>I, unlike some of the other posters, don't mind the questions, as it allows us
>>>>>>to quash them and set people straight. Besides, they are always useful for a
>>>>>>good laugh...
>>>>>>Crown Prince
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