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Re: Distance JD - Then "NOT" Taking the Bar
Posted by Crown Prince on 9/07/08
I never said I had one. The only thing I can do is post my FYLSE results. If you want me to do that, I
will. I am a 3L.
Post your degree or give me your name, or are you still chicken?
Crown Prince
On 9/07/08, I got my ABA law degree wrote:
> Post your law degree and I post mine.
>
> That was the challenge !
>
> On 9/07/08, Crown Prince wrote:
>> If you can't do paperwork for bankruptcy, then something is wrong with you.
>>
>> I never said I had a JD yet---I am a law student. Yes, go ahead and post your JD from Chicago. What is
>> your name so we can look it up on the state bar's website?
>>
>> Crown Prince
>>
>>
>> On 9/07/08, Don't Want to Take Bar Exam wrote:
>>> Go to LegalZoom.com, I believe Attorney Robert Shapiro is co-founder of LegalZoom.com. He is also one
>>> sharp lawyer. He approves of form fillers and legal document assistants and LegalZoom makes millions
>>> doing it. Remember Law can be a business as well as a vocation.
>>>
>>> I think telling someone you have an eJD is protected speech. 1st Amendment!!!
>>>
>>> It is not a crime to say you that you have a law degree, medical degree, engineering degree or basket
>>> weaving degree. But you must make it crystal clear when you are filling out the legal forms that you
>>> are not a member of the CA bar in good standing or a licensed lawyer, that you don't give legal
>>> advice. Having clients sign an ackknowledgement notice to this regard is very likely a good idea.
>>> Maybe a big classy sign posted behind you on the wall that states : "I am not an Attorney, just a
>>> legal documents Assistant or preparer, here to serve you."
>>>
>>> I say I'll will happily fill out legal forms, sell self-help books and run the documents to the court
>>> any day if I can build a multi-million dollar business like LegalZoom.
>>>
>>> As for unhappy clients wanting to get you in trouble with the bar for UPL or trying to put you out of
>>> the legal document business by tryng to get your LDP certificate revoke. I say every case is evaluated
>>> on its merits, if you did a good job, had safeguards in place and did not break the law, you (LDA)
>>> should be ok.
>>>
>>> Many lawyers get in trouble too. I know lawyers who get very upset when complaints are filed against
>>> them with the State Bar. Its not nice. Many of those complaints are frivolous and from clients who
>>> simply didn't like the results or outcome produced by the courts. Some clients don't want to pay the
>>> attorney his fee. Clients file frivolous complaints so that lawyers will stop collection actions. Many
>>> clients are "complaint happy".
>>>
>>> I disagree with Crown Prince, not any idiot can prepare a bankruptcy petition and forms. The legal
>>> document preparer must be competent to at least a minimum standard.
>>>
>>>
>>> Somebody posted here and said:
>>>>
>>>> "I am a licensed attorney, not a freakin document filler
>>>> and court runner like you."
>>>>
>>>> "You sure have alot of faith in your correspondence J.D. degree."
>>>
>>>
>>> CP said:
>>>
>>>>>>>>> "First and foremost, you are incorrect. I have included the statute below my posting. The
>>>>>>>>> bachelor's degree doesn't even have to be accredited. Don't believe me, read the statute.
>>>>>>>>> All I did was show the clerk (who could have cared less) a copy of my diploma. Didn't
>>>>>>>>> even have to show transcripts. "
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Second, any idiot can do a bankruptcy. When I worked for a real estate attorney, he had a
>>>>>>>>> bankruptcy come in and asked if I wanted to do it. I told him sure. Got it done in a few
>>>>>>>>> hours. Typing in the figures on the typewriter took most of the time because he didn't
>>>>>>>>> have a bankruptcy software program. ANY IDIOT CAN DO IT. I have done wills, powers of
>>>>>>>>> attorney, trusts, and the like. I know LDAs who are also making over 100K a year."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "EJDs are able to be conferred by the current state bar rules. Do you really want me to
>>>>>>>>> post another statute? Do your homework. It is also recognized. You just can't practice
>>>>>>>>> law with it. If it makes people feel better, why "
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "I think that you are just kinda angry that someone can legally do a bankruptcy or a will
>>>>>>>>> without having shelled out nearly 100K on an ABA law degree. "
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "The only thing worse is us dumb folk who are shelling out a total of $6000 for four years
>>>>>>>>> and a shot at the bar (Feb. 2011---I can't wait!). Stop being a hater. If you really did
>>>>>>>>> graduate from an ABA school, why are you wasting your time on this chatboard
>>>>>>>>> disseminating incorrect information and putting down people who are trying to make a
>>>>>>>>> difference or a buck in the legal profession. "
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Get over it and get a job! You could have been halfway done with a bankruptcy already :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Crown Prince
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "18. What are the educational requirements for registering? [Section 6402.1]
>>>>>>>>> To be eligible to apply for registration under this chapter as a legal document
>>>>>>>>> assistant, the applicant shall possess at least one of the following:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A high school diploma or general equivalency diploma, and either a minimum of two years
>>>>>>>>> of law-related experience under the supervision of a licensed attorney, or a minimum of
>>>>>>>>> two years experience, prior to January 1, 1999, providing self-help service.
>>>>>>>>> A baccalaureate degree in any field and either a minimum of one year law-related
>>>>>>>>> experience under the supervision of a licensed attorney, or a minimum of one year of
>>>>>>>>> experience, prior to January 1, 1999, providing self-help service.
>>>>>>>>> A certificate of completion from a paralegal program that is institutionally accredited
>>>>>>>>> but not approved by the American Bar Association, that requires successful completion of
>>>>>>>>> a minimum of 24 semester units, or the equivalent, in legal specialization courses.
>>>>>>>>> A certificate of completion from a paralegal program approved by the American Bar
>>>>>>>>> Association. "
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Somebody on here said:
>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 9/06/08, I got an ABA degree wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> eJD "degree" does NOT meet any Legal Document License requirements whatsoever.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> An eJD degree is NOT recognized by any California Adminstrative or
>>>>>>>>>> licensing agency whatsoever ! period. end of discussion on that.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It is and remains an oversold hyped oversold piece of paper with
>>>>>>>>>> no controlling legal authority.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> An earned J.D. degree that is bar qualifying however, is sanctioned
>>>>>>>>>> by statute and is legally authorized to be conferred by the new State
>>>>>>>>>> Bar rules.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The J.D. is useless for legal document preparation.....law school
>>>>>>>>>> does not teach the practice of law or filling out of legal procedural
>>>>>>>>>> paperwork...In this case it is just another dreamer that wants so bad
>>>>>>>>>> to say, hey I have a law degree, or hey I have a J.D. degree let me
>>>>>>>>>> help you with your divorce, probate paperwork, restraining order or
>>>>>>>>>> help you fill out documents for the court. Its a joke....
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I never learned anything in law school about filling out paperwork
>>>>>>>>>> and after I graduated I had to learn everything from lawyers who learned
>>>>>>>>>> from other lawyers...the hard humilating way.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 9/06/08, Crown Prince wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with the spirit of what you posted. However, you are incorrect. Having a EJD
>>>>>>>>>>> can actually contribute to the necessary education required to become a LDA in any of
>>>>>>>>>>> California's counties. I know, because I am one. I didn't use an EJD (I had a
>>>>>>>>>>> regionally accredited BA and MPA to satisfy mine). Educational only, though.
>>>>>>>>>>> Experience is another issue. However, I do agree about hanging the JD on the wall---
>>>>>>>>>>> not a good idea--UPOL is definitely something to be leary of. All it takes is one
>>>>>>>>>>> client to pull the rug out from under you. One picture of that JD on the wall and you
>>>>>>>>>>> are history, perhaps behind bars...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> By the way, as to the original poster, if you think you can make that much doing
>>>>>>>>>>> document preparation, even in a big city, you are bonkers. But hey, whatever floats
>>>>>>>>>>> your boat...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Crown Prince
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/06/08, I got an ABA degree wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Better bone up on California law.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Legal Document Preparation requires meeting
>>>>>>>>>>>> specific educational requirements not a single
>>>>>>>>>>>> one which is met by a useless and worthless eJD degree.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The purpose of a JD degree is legal theory and doctrine
>>>>>>>>>>>> of contracts, torts, criminal procedure, constitional
>>>>>>>>>>>> law and a whole host of other subjects designed
>>>>>>>>>>>> to make one pass the bar exam by testing their
>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge of legal theory and doctrine, none of which
>>>>>>>>>>>> in law school prepares one for the procedural paperwork aspect
>>>>>>>>>>>> of law. One is like being a Doctor and the other the Nurse.
>>>>>>>>>>>> In this case YOU would be the nurse and not the doctor so
>>>>>>>>>>>> a doctorate degree from an unaccredited law school would be
>>>>>>>>>>>> and is useless for a legal document preparer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dont waste your money on a eJD. You must take specific
>>>>>>>>>>>> paralegal document preparation courses to meet California
>>>>>>>>>>>> law.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Telling someone you have a eJD degree while preparing their
>>>>>> restraining order or child custody hearing motion will mean
>>>>>> nothing and could constitute the practice of law if they perceive
>>>>>> you are telling them about your unaccredited eJD degree and how
>>>>>> and why that degree lets you help them fill out their document.
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dont start a legal document preparation business and hang that
>>>>>>>> eJD degree anywhere near your "customers".....One mistake and
>>>>>>> the customer hires a real lawyer with a real J.D. degree and
>>>>>>> you will find out real fast how much trouble you really are in.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 9/06/08, Don't Want Bar Exam wrote:
>>>>>>>> I just want to learn law in my DL eJD program and later become the best darn top
>>>>>>>> notch registered California Legal Document Assistant/Mediator/Notary Public. I'll
>>>>>>>> let the smart students become lawyers and do all the hard work, they can have all
>>>>>>>> the fame and glory. I just want to sell legal documents like divorces, wills,
>>>>>>>> LLCs, name changes, power of attorney and small claims documents, . I want to be
>>>>>>>> just like LegalZoom. But smaller and I don't need to be a multi-billion dollar
>>>>>>>> business, I'll settle for 2 or 3 million, I mean why be greedy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>On 9/06/08, Crown Prince wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> I agree. Believe me, I tried to find loopholes to make it faster myself. There
>>>>>>>>are none. If you seriously think you can take the bar in any jurisdiction by
>>>>>>>>taking a non-bar track DL JD program, you also probably think Barack Obama
>>>>>>>>would make a good president.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Do your research, contact your respective state bar(s), and post information if
>>>>>>>>it is relevant.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I, unlike some of the other posters, don't mind the questions, as it allows us
>>>>>>>>to quash them and set people straight. Besides, they are always useful for a
>>>>>>>>good laugh...
>>>>>>>>Crown Prince
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