ATTORNEYS LAW STUDENTS PUBLIC
TOP POSTS ALL POSTS SUBMIT POST
Share | Print | Report Post Products Liability Chatboard

Hot Now...
• Attorney Chat Center
• Attorney Classifieds
• Attorney Chatboards
• Practice Areas
• Law Students
Most Popular
• Set Your Quick Links
• Chat Center
• All Chatboards
• Classified Ads


Re: Toyota Owners (online) Unite for Resolution: Engine Slu
Posted by Curmudgeon on 7/26/07

    I don't have a dog in this fight. Never owned a Toyota. Never even
    driven a Toyota. But the fact that Toyota has paid PR flacks defaming
    individuals on the internet convinces me that it has too much to cover up
    and I will never buy a Toyota.

    On 7/26/07, Ben Voulin wrote:
    > Sorry. Not going to play your game!
    > The onus is on Charlene Blake to either put up or shut up on this one.
    > It will remain refuted until she proves otherwise.
    > So don't confuse the issue with childish games.
    > She made the claim, I don't believe it and expressed that accordingly.
    > Playing mind games isn't going to change my mind or anyone else having
    > even the tiniest bit of common sense.
    > So don't even try to twist it around and change the burden of proof from
    > Charlene Blake to yours truly!
    > Gamesmanship won't work this time.
    > Charlene Blake must put up or shut up on this one!
    >
    > PS....you really demonstrate your lack of any integrity by hiding behind
    > anonymity. My name and E-Mail address is real, because I have nothing to
    > hide.
    >
    >
    > On 7/26/07, Curmudgeon wrote:
    >> Then, sir, please tell us the source of your information from which
    >> you can absolutely deny that Toyota has any relationship with
    >> complaintremover.com.
    >>
    >> On 7/26/07, Ben Voulin wrote:
    >>> Not only is my denial of Charlene Blake's wild accusation factual,
    >>> it's a testimonial to the irrationality and futility of her repeated
    >>> attacks on automakers.
    >>> If there was any proof whatsoever that her claim was valid, I'd be
    >>> the first to apologize!
    >>> But she can't show any proof at all, and she knows it.
    >>> Someone wrote earlier in this forum that Charlene Blake is
    >>> completely nuts.
    >>> If her latest accusation has any value whatsoever, it's yet another
    >>> example of how far off her rocker she really is.
    >>> Her fantasy that Toyota has some relationship
    >>> with "Complaintremover.com" is just plain insane by anyone's
    >>> standard.
    >>> Furthermore, your half witted "presumption" that I'm in some way
    >>> involved with Toyota in Charlene's latest fantasy is about as off
    >>> balance as it gets.
    >>> She has really lost it this time!! You too, my friend!!
    >>> I submit that your analogy is every bit as nuts as she is.
    >>> If you honestly believe your own convoluted BS, then my advice to
    >>> you would be to get some reality counselling.
    >>> At the very least, get real before fantasyland becomes too
    >>> compfortable.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> On 7/26/07, Curmudgeon wrote:
    >>>> If your denial of Charlene Blake's accusation is factual, you must
    >>>> have some evidence of that and such evidence could only come from
    >>>> deep inside Toyota at the most confidential levels. Therefore, we
    >>>> must presume that you are an insider with Toyota and that Toyota
    >>>> has its employees and agents actively following these websites and
    >>>> campaigning to denounce any negative publicity.
    >>>>
    >>>> On 7/26/07, Ben Voulin wrote:
    >>>>> Charlene Blake has really taken liberty with the truth this
    >>>>> time!!
    >>>>> Here's what she wrote: "Apparently, Toyota is associated with an
    >>>>> internet company, 'Complaintremover.com,' which promises to
    >>>>> remove negative complaints about it from Google searches.
    >>>>> Now that's an outragious claim if there ever was one!!
    >>>>> It clearly illustrates that Charlene Blake doesn't care how big
    >>>>> the lie as long as it fans the flames of her campaign of
    >>>>> misinformation and distorted reality.
    >>>>> When Charlene Blake accuses people of misdeeds like that, she'd
    >>>>> better be prepared to back up her lies with some real proof.
    >>>>> In this case she would find that impossible--simply because it's
    >>>>> completely false and a completely baseless accusation.
    >>>>> Or is Charlene Blake just getting wildly desperate because her
    >>>>> lost cause is long past being hopeless.
    >>>>> Lesson learned---baseless propaganda in and of itself isn't the
    >>>>> way Charlene.
    >>>>> In this instance you have really exposed who you are, what
    >>>>> tactics you stoop to, and how desperately empty your tank of
    >>>>> credibility is.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> On 7/20/07, Charlene Blake wrote:
    >>>>>> It is worth noting that if one does a search on Toyota's web
    >>>>>> site for 'Customer Support Program for Engine Oil Gelation' or
    >>>>>> anything close to it, nothing comes up!! The only thing about
    >>>>>> this program that comes up on a Google search is what I have
    >>>>>> written about it!!
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> What's REALLY going on at Toyota? Is the company intentionally
    >>>>>> hiding this very important information from its customers? Are
    >>>>>> dealerships acting like they don't know anything about the
    >>>>>> program?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Bruce Ertmann, CEO at Toyota, admitted that the first round of
    >>>>>> Toyota owner letters that were sent out in a staggered fashion
    >>>>>> in February 2002 was halted before the 3.3 million Toyota
    >>>>>> vehicle owners received them. The first letter was called the
    >>>>>> SPA or 'Special Adjustment Policy' and it was good for 12
    >>>>>> months. It covered repairs for engine oil sludge in an engine
    >>>>>> that was sufficiently maintained by the owner.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> After a near online revolt by Toyota owners, Toyota then
    >>>>> issued
    >>>>>> the CSP or 'Customer Support Program for Engine Oil Gelation'
    >>>>>> in April 2002. This program covers sludge repairs for EIGHT
    >>>>>> YEARS and UNLIMITED MILEAGE, starting with the purchase date.
    >>>>>> Once again, Toyota claimed that it would send out all 3.3
    >>>>>> million Toyota owner letters in a staggered manner.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> One year after this claim, Toyota owners continued to post
    >>>>> that
    >>>>>> they had not yet received any such letter. The discussions
    >>>>> took
    >>>>>> place on Edmunds.com 'Town Hall' (now known as
    >>>>>> CarSpace.com 'Forums'), on Cartrackers.com 'Toyota Forum,' The
    >>>>>> Complaint Station for Toyota, and a number of other auto
    >>>>> sites.
    >>>>>> Mr. Ertmann participated in some of the forums and he assured
    >>>>>> customers that their sludge issues would be addressed. He also
    >>>>>> assured owners that they would received their letter.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Well, it has been over seven years since this CSP was issued
    >>>>>> now and still many Toyota owners indicate that they received
    >>>>> no
    >>>>>> such letter. Further, they tell stories about their
    >>>>> experiences
    >>>>>> that mimic what the ORIGINAL SLUDGE VICTIMS posted
    >>>>>> about....before any programs were initiated! Deja Vu?!? Sure
    >>>>> it
    >>>>>> is! Apparently, Toyota never planned to send out all the
    >>>>>> letters. Further, it continues to keep quiet about the CSP and
    >>>>>> to keep its customers in the dark! Now that the sites where
    >>>>> the
    >>>>>> discussions took place are defunct (hacking, etc.), Toyota
    >>>>>> customers are having difficulty finding the much needed engine
    >>>>>> oil sludge information.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Go ahead...do a search on Toyota's very own web site and see
    >>>>>> what you find on this very serious engine condition! As of
    >>>>>> today, 7/16/07, SPA and CSP searches yield nothing...no owner
    >>>>>> letter information, no details about the programs, NOTHING!
    >>>>> So,
    >>>>>> why is this? Why is Toyota keeping this information from the
    >>>>>> Toyota owners...1997-2002 vehicle owners some of whom still
    >>>>>> qualify for the program based on age and/or mileage?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Don't the 3.3 million Toyota owners have a right to know about
    >>>>>> this??? Why should the only mention of these progams be in my
    >>>>>> postings after a Google search? Does Toyota actively seek to
    >>>>>> remove negative complaints about its company from internet
    >>>>>> searches? Does it actively to remove key information about
    >>>>> this
    >>>>>> engine oil gelation from internet searches?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Apparently, Toyota is associated with an internet
    >>>>>> company, 'Complaintremover.com,' which promises to remove
    >>>>>> negative complaints about it from Google searches. This same
    >>>>>> company claims that it will PROVIDE positive postings to take
    >>>>>> the place of the negative ones! This company says it
    >>>>>> can 'unlock Google cache' and manipulate what information
    >>>>>> appears on the first pages of a Google search!!
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Hmmm...active manipulation of posted
    >>>>> information...particularly
    >>>>>> Toyota vehicle owner information! Does this sound like
    >>>>>> something you, a current Toyota owner and/or would-be Toyota
    >>>>>> would accept?!?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Forgive me, but this sounds like a company that is afraid of
    >>>>>> the truth! Why would a company that has risen to #1 in the
    >>>>> auto
    >>>>>> marketplace need to intentionally manipulate search
    >>>>>> information?!? Is it afraid that this *sanitized* information
    >>>>>> might keep it from maintaining this status? Is it afraid that
    >>>>>> that Toyota owners might continue to ask the tough questions?
    >>>>>> WHY would it need to form a partnership with this 'search
    >>>>>> engine optimization' (translated: removal of key information)
    >>>>>> company?!?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Something isn't right about this! Is the intent to weaken the
    >>>>>> power of the Toyota consumer? Is it to limit the Toyota
    >>>>> owners'
    >>>>>> freedom of speech? Is it to keep the would-be Toyota owners
    >>>>>> from seeing what has transpired in the last few
    >>>>>> years...especially concerning Toyota engine oil sludge?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> It is my personal feeling that if consumers knew what
    >>>>> companies
    >>>>>> like Toyota are doing to keep the real world experiences
    >>>>>> (perceived to be negative by the company) of its vehicle
    >>>>> owners
    >>>>>> from coming forward, they would be SHOCKED!!
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> This reminds me of what happened back in 2001 when I posted
    >>>>>> that the Toyota Financial Services web site had a 'Engine
    >>>>>> Sludge' link. This was back when some 'regulars' on
    >>>>> Edmunds.com
    >>>>>> were saying that Toyota sludge was just one big hoax. This was
    >>>>>> back when Edmunds.com banned me from asking the tough
    >>>>> questions
    >>>>>> about Toyota on its web site. This was back when Toyota blamed
    >>>>>> the engine oil sludge on the Toyota owners and made void the
    >>>>>> new vehicle warranty as soon as it surfaced!
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I posted the information, including the link to that
    >>>>>> TFS 'Engine Sludge' link, and within 72 hours, it was REMOVED!
    >>>>>> Guess that it might have been very embarrassing for
    >>>>>> Toyota...after all, NOTHING was revealed about engine sludge
    >>>>> up
    >>>>>> to that point...except by the Toyota owners posting online.
    >>>>>> POOF! Evidence removed, just like that! Wouldn't it be very
    >>>>>> interesting to find out what else has been removed online by
    >>>>>> the company?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Hmmm...I am wondering if this has anything to do with
    >>>>>> the 'corporate protectors' following me around wherever I post
    >>>>>> to challenge my Toyota engine oil sludge information? Such
    >>>>>> personal attacks all because I am giving information that
    >>>>>> Toyota refuses to? Strange, isn't it? Let's just say that I am
    >>>>>> concerned about the current Toyota owners who have sludge and
    >>>>>> not one shred of information about the SPA or the CSP.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Now, the sludge is just one issue. There are many others
    >>>>>> associated with the Toyota Sienna that have also been swept
    >>>>>> under the table. Pulling to the left, recurrent brake problems
    >>>>>> (brake drums), sticking (sometimes breaking) sliding door
    >>>>>> locks, power steering problems, excessive tire wear,
    >>>>>> transmission failures, emissions control component failures,
    >>>>>> speedometer failure, excessive heat with highway driving,
    >>>>> paint
    >>>>>> flaking, etc. And...I won't even discuss the 4Runner head
    >>>>>> gasket issue here!
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> One of the 'corporate protectors' said that Toyota was no
    >>>>>> different than any other carmaker. Hmmm...that isn't what the
    >>>>>> Toyota owners were told in the advertisements!
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Look..all we, the Toyota owners are asking for is the truth.
    >>>>> We
    >>>>>> want Toyota to both acknowledge and fix, once and for all, the
    >>>>>> engine oil sludge problem. At this point, Toyota owners aren't
    >>>>>> even able to get the information from Toyota. Is this FAIR?!?
    >>>>>> This situation is unacceptable...and I am far from alone in
    >>>>>> this sentiment.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Charlene Blake
    >>>>>> cblake@erols.com

     
     

 
Google
 
Web Counsel.Net
  Site Map: Home Search Legal Jobs Classifieds Law Students Contacts Practice Areas Advertise
  © 1996 - 2008. All Rights Reserved. Please review our Terms of Use, Mission Statement, and Privacy Policy.