Re: Executive JD

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Dear Mr. Prairie Dawg:

Have you taken a look at the legal document preparer laws in Arizona or
California? They are good laws that facilitate and make available lower cost
legal services to those who can't afford expensive lawyers.

Also, I am sure there are many good and bad mediators, just like in any
group, there are some good and bad. I think a mediator with law training will
do a better job, even if his degree is an executive JD. I think the
development of mediation is a good thing for our society. It brings people
together to agree on how to resolve issues. Mediation reduces litigation and
the congestion of the courts. Mediation is a good thing. It teaches people to
be civil and negociate conflicts rather than endure the uncertainty of
litigation. This is a very positive trend that the courts in most states are
promoting.

As for the Notary Publics they are licensed, bonded and insured in every
state. Even though you say you have never made "cash" with your seal, yes some
notaries actually make a buck or two. Those that know how to work a notary
practice. Yes, it is a practice and they are authorized by law to practice it.

In fact being a notary is so much more than just "checking
identification", as you say, that the "lawyers" are getting in on it. Go to:
www.nacln.org "National Association of Civil Law Notaries". You have to be a
lawyer and take a test to be a civil law notary.

Well enough for now, take care Mr. Prairie Dawg.

On 12/06/07, Prairie Dawg wrote:
> "I have gathered that Mr. Prairie Dawg dislikes the fact that
> independant legal document preparers, notary publics and mediators can
> make a buck. All this without having to take and pass the bar."
>
> Dislike has nothing to do with it.
>
> I've got nothing against trained mediators so long as they don't start
> meddling in areas where they've no business or in areas they do not
> understand, like allocating legal rights and responsibilities. Which they
> have a distressing habit of doing particularly in family law court ordered
> mediation when they start crafting stuff like "You get the Mastercard debt
> and I get the mortgage debt" without any freakin' idea that two people can't
> agree to allocate the rights of a third to collect a debt.
>
> Likewise, all a notary does is check identification. Big deal. I've never
> been paid for the use of my seal yet. No cash to be made there.
>
>
> You're proposing offering services that the average uninformed citizen will
> think are legal services, and you aren't going to carry legal malpractice
> insurance and be subject to professional regulation that protects the public
> from your mistakes.
>
> You're going to have eJD on your office and the e is going to be real small.
>
> All your infernal palaver about "I'm not a lawyer, I'm an independent
> document preparer, but if you have a social security case I'm every bit as
> good" will slide right by most average Joes.
>
> They will rightly conclude that if it looks like a duck and talks like a
> duck and quacks like a duck, then, it's the functional equivalent of a duck.
>
> And that points out better than I ever could the level of misrepresentation
> that you propose to inflict on people who you "serve" although I use that
> term advisedly.
>
> This is so particularly in the Hispanic community where folks are trying to
> avoid La Migra, they're used to the tradition of abogados where they come
> from, and they do not understand generally understand the finer points of
> who is and who is not an attorney and what does or does not constitute legal
> advice. That continues to be a terrible problem in the upper midwest for
> immigrants.
>
> You mean to milk the cow through the fence without having to pay for it.
>
> Then, the messes end up on our doorsteps.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 12/06/07, executive JD L1 wrote:
>> Crown Prince:
>> Thank you for your input. All the activities that I proposed, such as
>> getting certified as a mediator, licensed legal documents assistant and
>> notary public(closing agent) are all legal activities that do not require
>> passing the bar.
>>
>> The way I figure how much more valuable is a legal document assistant
>> with an eJD than without one. I know I can't give legal advice, I don't
>> want to give advice, I know my bounderies. I am a non-lawyer, I will
>> market and advertise myself as such. I will get licensed,bonded and
>> insured as this is the responsible thing to do.
>>
>> I have gathered that Mr. Prairie Dawg dislikes the fact that
>> independant legal document preparers, notary publics and mediators can
>> make a buck. All this without having to take and pass the bar. Taking the
>> bar exam is fine for those that want to be lawyers. I wish all those that
>> want to be lawyers much success, including Mr. Prairie Dawg.
>>
>> And by the way Crown Prince, I am just about to recieve my 1st
>> decision from SSA on a disability case I'm advocating, I mention this
>> because I've seen your postings before and know you work in this area also.
>>
>> Again thanks for your comments, much success to you and God Bless!
>> distance learning eJD L1
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/06/07, Crown Prince wrote:
>>> I think there are merits to both of your postings.
>>>
>>> First of all, Prairie Dawg is right: if you are going to get a J.D., it
>>> mine as well be a bar-track program. Why waste the time and money. Go to
>>> West Coast School of law and pay the $1500 per year. If you don't or
>>> can't pass the baby and general bars, as the very least you will have
>>> your EJD.
>>>
>>> Secondly, as a legal document and unlawful detainer assistant in a
>>> California county, I can tell you that preparing legal documents or
>>> assisting with unlawful detainers is in fact sanctioned by California
>>> law. However, I will make the point that absolutely little legal
>>> knowledge or expertise is needed to execute a legal document like a
>> will,
>>> power of attorney, etc. However, when you are talking about mortgage
>>> documents or other complex documents which need to be examined by a
>>> competent attorney, then I would certainly become an attorney or hire
>>> one. People who don't pass the bar are not lawyers and should not market
>>> themselves as such. Additionally, I am licenced and bonded, which is a
>>> requirement under CA law.
>>>
>>> As PD said, I would be EXTREMELY careful when giving any type of advice
>>> pertaining to a legal document with an EJD, because if your business
>> card
>>> says EJD and you accidently give advice of a legal nature, you are up a
>>> creek, so to speak.
>>>
>>> CP
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/05/07, Prairie Dawg wrote:
>>>> Well, go ahead on, walk up the steps to the guillotine, lay your head
>>>> down ever so nice and let me hand you the rope-it's your funeral, and
>>>> I shan't keep you from it.
>>>>
>>>> You have a great day yourself. At least when they come looking for me
>>>> I can point to the license signed by the chief justice of our supreme
>>>> court and say "That lets me do what I did." As far as what you say,
>>>> you're right until the first pissed off client files a complaint, they
>>>> find out you're not licensed and they figure out what you've been up
>>>> to.
>>>>
>>>> On 12/05/07, executive JD L1 wrote:
>>>>> Dear Mr. Prairie Dawg: What state do you live and practice in,
>>>>> the attorneys don't have any say in what a "licensed legal document
>>>>> preparers" does. Notary Publics are licensed by the Dept. of State
>>>>> and the many State Supreme Courts license/certify Mediators. What I
>>>>> plan on doing is on the up and up and 100&37; legal. It is
>>>>> not "unlicensed law practice". No passing of the bar exam is needed
>>>>> for any of the activities I mention. If you think I'm mistaken, do
>>>>> some research and find out for yourself. PS. Have a nice day.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/05/07, Prairie Dawg wrote:
>>>>>> That's kind of like wanting to milk the cow through the fence
>>>>>> instead of buying it. How are you going to be able to prepare
>>>>>> documents without running foul of UAPL and the local gentry? I
>>>>>> mean, do you really think the attorneys in your community will
>>>>>> just say "Oh yeah, there goes Teddy, doesn't want to take the bar
>>>>>> because he can't, doesn't carry malpractice insurance, no CLE
>>>>>> requirements but he's eating at our table and it's all good"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/04/07, distance learning executive JD L1 wrote:
>>>>>>> I am in a similar situation as you. I work as a paralegal
>>>>>>> in a law office. I want to eventually setup my own legal
>>>>>>> documents preparation, notary public business and Mediation
>>>>>>> practice. I have no desire to take any bar exam ever.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If its just exposure to a law school education that you want, an
>>>>>>> executive JD(non-bar)program may give you all the exposure to
>>>>>>> the basic law school subjects and provide you all the education
>>>>>>> you may want and need. You may want to take some extra electives
>>>>>>> like "Wills & Trust", "Property" courses or "Corporations". Or
>>>>>>> what ever interests you. Remember an executive JD does not make
>>>>>>> you eligible to take a bar exam if you change you mind later
>>>>>>> on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The executive JD programs provide you the opportunity to study
>>>>>>> law with the least time restrictions and least amount of stress
>>>>>>> possible. To fine "online law schools" just do a "Google" search
>>>>>>> and you'll see whats out there. Best of luck to you in your law
>>>>>>> studies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 12/04/07, SJAM wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I work with various types of legal documents from Trust
>>>>>>>>>> Agreements to Escrow Agreements. In my position I need to
>>>>>>>>>> understand and comment on these documents drafted by
>>>>>>>>>> attorneys in order to provide our services while taking in
>>>>>>>>>> account of Risk Aversion.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I do not intend to practice law; however I would like to
>>>>>>>>>> obtain a better foundation in order to be more efficient
>>>>>>>>>> and knowledgeable of the issues at hand.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, does anyone know if an "Executive JD" program
>>>>>>>>>> would benefit me? Also, which program would you suggest?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you...