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Re: Denied Illinois FOID card
Posted by paul a. on 7/07/08

    The right to keep and bear arms, RKBA,[1] or right to bear arms is the concept
    that people, individually or collectively, have a right to weapons. Today this is
    usually interpreted to mean personal guns or the arming of a state militia. This
    is an important concept in the United States, where the right is protected in the
    Second Amendment to the United States Constitution, drafted in 1791, and where
    the right derived from popular conceptions of English law around the American
    Revolution, including a tradition of local militias, a common law right to
    possess weapons, the English Bill of Rights (1689) and a statute, the Assize of
    Arms, dating back to 1181.

    Civilian usage definition:

    The people's right to have their own arms for their defense is described in the
    philosophical and political writings of Aristotle, Cicero, John Locke,
    Machiavelli, the English Whigs, and others.[10] Though possessing arms appears to
    be distinct from "bearing" them, the possession of arms is recognized as
    necessary for and a logical precursor to the bearing of arms.[11] Particularly in
    the event of oppression or slaughter of people by governments or racial
    majorities, researchers have noted that exercise of the right to bear arms
    internationally is intrinsically linked to a people's ability to possess them.[12]

    In commentary written by Justice Cummings in United States v. Emerson, the United
    States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit concluded in 2001 that:[13]

    "there are numerous instances of the phrase 'bear arms' being used to describe a
    civilian's carrying of arms. Early constitutional provisions or declarations of
    rights in at least some ten different states speak of the right of the 'people'
    [or 'citizen' or 'citizens'] "to bear arms in defense of themselves
    [or 'himself'] and the state,' or equivalent words, thus indisputably reflecting
    that under common usage 'bear arms' was in no sense restricted to bearing arms in
    military service."[14]

    The bearing of arms by civilians in this sense is exercised in Israel to prevent
    terrorist attacks on grade schools.[15]

    Similarly, in a released Senate report on the Right to Keep and Bear Arms,
    Senator Orrin G. Hatch, chairman, U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee, Subcommittee
    on the Constitution, states:

    They argue that the Second Amendment's words "right of the people" mean "a right
    of the state" — apparently overlooking the impact of those same words when used
    in the First and Fourth Amendments. The "right of the people" to assemble or to
    be free from unreasonable searches and seizures is not contested as an individual
    guarantee. Still they ignore consistency and claim that the right to "bear arms"
    relates only to military uses. This not only violates a consistent constitutional
    reading of "right of the people" but also ignores that the second amendment
    protects a right to "keep" arms. "When our ancestors forged a land "conceived in
    liberty", they did so with musket and rifle. When they reacted to attempts to
    dissolve their free institutions, and established their identity as a free
    nation, they did so as a nation of armed freemen. When they sought to record
    forever a guarantee of their rights, they devoted one full amendment out of ten
    to nothing but the protection of their right to keep and bear arms against
    governmental interference. Under my chairmanship the Subcommittee on the
    Constitution will concern itself with a proper recognition of, and respect for,
    this right most valued by free men."[16]

    Likewise, the Supreme Court of the United States affirmed in District of Columbia
    v. Heller, No. 07-290, that "The Second Amendment protects an individual right to
    possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for
    traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home."


    On 7/07/08, friend of NRA wrote:
    > On 7/07/08, Greg Holz wrote:
    >> You may want to retract this statement after the Supreme Court's recent 2nd
    >> Amendment ruling! The Second Amendment not only applies to states but more
    >> importantly to an individuals right to keep and bear arms. It is very much
    >> about state gun control.
    >
    > No need for a retraction. What I wrote was the law at the time I wrote it. In
    > DC v. Heller the Supreme Court for the first time ever ruled that the 2nd
    > Amendment is an individual right. So that is now the law.
    >
    > However, DC v. Heller does not say that everyone can now own a gun or that
    > states may not reasonably place restrictions on gun ownership. FOID cards seem
    > to be well within the limits of the DC v. Heller decision. Don't expect for
    > FOID regulations to fall in a court challenge. Maybe the Chicago gun ban but
    > not FOID. We'll just have to wait and see how far DC v. Heller goes in
    > bringing down gun control laws.
    >
    > In any event, if you have a psyc or criminal history, the Supreme Court made it
    > clear in their opinion that you will not own a gun.
    >
    >
    >
    >> On 9/28/07, friend of NRA wrote:
    >>>> On 9/28/07, DILLER wrote in part:
    >>>
    >>>> Foid cards in my opinion violate the United States Constitution. You
    >>>> have a right to bare arms and shall not be infringed; it says nothing
    >>>> about firearm identification cards, or any other requirement. Stop them
    >>>> from dismantling the Constitution.
    >>>
    >>> The applicability of the Second Amendment is often misunderstood. Its
    >>> guarantee applies only to the federal government not to state government.
    >>> Over the years, much of the US Constitution has been made applicable to
    >>> the states by the terms of the 14th Amendment, but still, only certain
    >>> parts of it apply to states and the 2nd Amendment is one part that does
    >>> not apply to states. For example, the 5th Amendment is now applicable to
    >>> the states except for the part where it says "No person shall be held to
    >>> answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment
    >>> or indictment of a Grand Jury[.]" That part does not apply to the
    >>> states. The 5th Amendment has been applied to states piece by piece over
    >>> the last 150 years. Believe it or not, it was not until 1969 that the
    >>> double jeopardy clause of the 5th Amendment was applied to state trials by
    >>> the decision in Benton v. Maryland, 395 U.S. 784, and the self-
    >>> incrimination clause did not apply to state trials until the early
    >>> twentieth century. Likewise, the first sentence of the 7th Amendment
    >>> says "In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed
    >>> twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved[.]" That
    >>> does not apply to states. As I said above; none of the 2nd Amendment
    >>> applies to states. Don't confuse your federal US constitutional rights
    >>> with your rights under state law regarding firearms.
    >>>
    >>> I make no judgment about your opinion on gun control but want to point out
    >>> that the US Constitution does not forbid any type of gun control by the
    >>> states, thus, the Illinois FOID card can not be a violation of the 2nd
    >>> Amendment. The framers of the Constitution were concerned that the
    >>> federal government not take away the right to bear arms from the citizen
    >>> militias created by the states. They were not at all concerned at the
    >>> time the 2nd Amendment was written about state gun control. It is
    >>> unlikely that the Supreme Court will ever hold that the 2nd Amendment
    >>> applies to states.

     
     

 
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